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  • "Di Anna" is female

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16

Tuesday, October 25th 2011, 4:30pm

Examples of quotes

Sweet, m' Lord,
If you can wait on those examples, I'll post them as I continue proofing PJ's "Arriving at an RBE" . It will be really nice to have examples from actual material, don't you think? :ponder:
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17

Tuesday, October 25th 2011, 8:02pm

Hyphen use

Oh what have I started here :)... No seriously - I'm so happy (and very pleasantly surprised) that everyone's open to discuss and that I'm not considered a pain in the bum...

Di Anna - how sweet you are! Thanks for the warm welcome!
FROM DI ANNA

Quoted

About the hyphens: As I understand it, the use of hyphens to indicate a change of speaker is a convention used by the hearing impaired in subtitles. This is why we have chosen NOT to use hyphens freely in our punctuation of strings. This will be confusing for our hearing impaired population.
So, hyphens are conventionally used for showing second speaker to the hearing impaired. I took a look at the google spreadsheet and saw the examples that were shown and indeed - I would have also used brackets in these examples. And how about this example from the Jacque Fresco questions, participation:

But it you believe that people scratch their heads because it itches
- or they think it itches - that's alright
as long as you know why.

Ok so in this example I see now that brackets could also be used :):
PS - where would you put the comma in here, don't you think it needs one? (or they think it itches) that's alright

But it you believe that people scratch their heads because it itches
(or they think it itches) that's all right
as long as you know why.


But what about this one (PJ Occupy LA)? I don't believe this could be put in brackets:

Not the rise of a political ideology
but the rise of a defense mechanism
coming from the very fabric of our culture
that sees that something is extremely wrong and very - well, cancerous -
cancerous to society as a whole.


And if we put commas instead it doesn't look exactly right in my eyes
:


Not the rise of a political ideology
but the rise of a defense mechanism
coming from the very fabric of our culture
that sees that something is extremely wrong and very, well, cancerous
cancerous to society as a whole.

And my favorite way of using a hyphen is to show emphasis. So what would you suggest for the following?


It's defined by consumption. It's defined by turnover
and we often think that corporations should be held responsible
for their actions because of their abuse of this nature
when in fact, the competitive market model of economics
demands that behavior.
Again - it's structural.

I've been searching for some material on the 'whole hyphen to show second speaker' subject but it's not an easy thing to find. Perhaps someone could point me towards something? How up-to-date is this information if I may ask? It's just really difficult for me to come to grips with the fact that the hearing impaired chose the hyphen as the way to clearly show 2nd speaker, when any number of symbols, e.g. * > ~ -- could also be used, and not something that's used for punctuation. In Holland we always have subtitles when any foreign language spoken program is on, and not once I have seen the hyphen to show second speaker. Anyway - if there's really nothing to do about it, I'll get used to it of course (I'm already starting to and it's not as bad as at first).

Kisses and yes, LTI is the bestest!
Julie
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This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "gentlejewel" (Oct 25th 2011, 8:26pm) with the following reason: I'm so new to these forum thingy s and the version(s) before was almost impossible to read...


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18

Tuesday, October 25th 2011, 8:29pm

About hearing impaired

Hey, Gentle Julie (may I call you GJ for short?)

I think I'll respond to each of your questions separately, so I won't get confused! :dunno:
First, about the hyphens for hearing impaired, I have not researched it, but had been told this was the case, and I had no reason to doubt the LTI. Hm... should we? :huhwhat: Well, probably we should if we're gonna apply the scientific method, right? :ponder: I may research that one later!

Second, in response to the Jacque Fresco strings, I agree with the use of the parentheses. Hm...I did see a misspelled word (alright should be all right). I have already noted this common error on a doc for Lord Bru. Alright is never all right! :rofl: And I HAVE researched that one! No, I didn't think it needed a comma anywhere.

And, it is sooooo nice to have another Lady to talk too in here. Maybe I'll call you Lady GJ?
Will answer more later.
((hugs))
Lady Di
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19

Tuesday, October 25th 2011, 8:35pm

Brackets in PJ Occupy LA?

But what about this one (PJ Occupy LA)? I don't believe this could be put in brackets:

Not the rise of a political ideology
but the rise of a defense mechanism
coming from the very fabric of our culture
that sees that something is extremely wrong and very - well, cancerous -
cancerous to society as a whole.


No, I wouldn't use brackets here, but I would edit out 'well' so that it reads:

that sees that something is extremely wrong and very cancerous

We usually leave out padding phrases and words like 'well'.

Talk to you later, Lady GJ! :)
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20

Tuesday, October 25th 2011, 8:40pm

Hyphen for emphasis?

And my favorite way of using a hyphen is to show emphasis. So what would you suggest for the following?


It's defined by consumption. It's defined by turnover
and we often think that corporations should be held responsible
for their actions because of their abuse of this nature
when in fact, the competitive market model of economics
demands that behavior.
Again - it's structural.


Nope, I disagree. Maybe it's my traditional background in English, but I've never seen that. Are you from US?
I would opt for:
Again, it's structural.

((hugs)) from me :bighug: Di
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21

Tuesday, October 25th 2011, 8:46pm

My goodness - you type so quickly! GJ, Julie, jules, gentlejewel (it's a bit long isn't it?) - please call me whatever pleases you.

Yes, yes, the alright has to be all right (I made a mental note of it having seen it in the spreadsheet but I guess - what is it that they say about habits?) Do you happen to know why alright never comes up as a spelling mistake neither here, nor in word?

If you do find the time (you're a busy lady I know!) to research it I would really appreciate it. Perhaps this will finally quieten me ;).

And it's lovely to be here! I really am so grateful to be able to do these kinds of things. It's such a wonderful way to contribute without leaving my beloved computer.

Lot's of love and hear you soon,
Julie
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  • "brunodc" is male
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22

Tuesday, October 25th 2011, 8:48pm

I've read a little study that found that 85% of the subjects (mostly hearing impaired) were favorable to having hyphens to convey changes of speakers.

The study is readable here, but it's in French. I'm referencing my source, just in case some of you would think that I pulled it out of my fine looking bottom. :kewl:

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23

Tuesday, October 25th 2011, 9:28pm

Research for closed-captions (hearing impaired)

Hey, Lady Gj
I have done a little research on captioning for hearing impaired and although I see some variations, I think I'm comfortable believing that the hyphen is a good choice.

Here's two sources:

* A change of speaker is usually indicated by either two or three greater-than (>) symbols, or by the new speaker's name (especially if the speaker can't be seen speaking). This is usually used on roll-up captions.
** On pop-on captions, hyphens (-) are often used to denote multiple speakers. Source

If there is more than one speaker, indicate speaker change with a hyphen at the beginning of the line. Source of quote

((hugs)) from me, Lady G :bighug:

Dear Sweet Bru! Wish I could read French! I'm just mono-lingual! :numb:
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24

Tuesday, October 25th 2011, 9:30pm

I've read a little study that found that 85% of the subjects (mostly hearing impaired) were favorable to having hyphens to convey changes of speakers.

The study is readable here, but it's in French. I'm referencing my source, just in case some of you would think that I pulled it out of my fine looking bottom. :kewl:


You can send pics if you like, m' Lord! ;)
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25

Wednesday, October 26th 2011, 5:46am

Nope, I disagree. Maybe it's my traditional background in English, but I've never seen that. Are you from US?
I would opt for:
Again, it's structural.

((hugs)) from me :bighug: Di
Ah ha - I think I'm getting the hang of how these forums work :). I was born in Australia and lived there until my early 20's but have spent the last 17 years or so in Europe: 14 years in Holland and 3 now in Greece. At school we learned British English and when I came to Europe and first started working with computers, it kind of freaked me out a bit because the spelling was American English (all of sudden colour was spelled color, and labour, labor) and yet if you study English at University in Holland (not that I studied at Uni but friends of mine have) they teach British English! And another thing that astounded me was that they always use single quotation marks in books for when people are speaking. I thought i was losing my mind but soon discovered that in Australia (for me in any case) it's like you're brought with very little awareness that there are also other ways of doing things...

I'm not sure where I learned to use the hyphen like I have... I can't remember learning it at school but there are many things that I don't remember from school. For example, my partner and I attended a Greek school to learn the basics and all of a sudden the teacher starts talking about 'nominative', 'accusative' and one other form that I've already forgotten, and I was like, "What are you talking about?" when everybody else in the class new exactly what she was talking about. I am positive that I'd never heard that before but then again I did leave school when I was 14.

Anyway guys, thanks for easing my mind in regards to not using hyphens. If I ever come across another piece where I think it should be there, can I ask you Di what's best? (The example the you've used above makes perfect sense now :).

xxx Julie
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Wednesday, October 26th 2011, 5:51am

I've read a little study that found that 85% of the subjects (mostly hearing impaired) were favorable to having hyphens to convey changes of speakers.

The study is readable here, but it's in French. I'm referencing my source, just in case some of you would think that I pulled it out of my fine looking bottom. :kewl:

Thanks Bruno! I really had to laugh when I read this...
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27

Wednesday, October 26th 2011, 9:36am

Thanks for the examples, sweet Di, it's nice to have 'real world' examples.

The guidelines have been updated with those examples.

EDIT : I used angle quotes for those 'quotes examples' to make sure people saw the difference between what we call appropriate and inappropriate.

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Wednesday, October 26th 2011, 2:36pm

I thought i was losing my mind but soon discovered that in Australia (for me in any case) it's like you're brought with very little awareness that there are also other ways of doing things...


Hi, sweet new friend GJ :wave:
I really liked hearing about your life, all the places you've lived. You are a lady of the world! I really liked what you said in the quote above. I think this is true for all of us. A focus of education today, sadly, no matter where we live, is to indoctrinate into the culture. Hey, we in America REALLY have that one down! :dance: One reason we're always acting like the Big Shit is because we have been indoctrinated to believe we are. :hypno:

I am happy for you to ask me about proofing, of course, but it's also good to ask the team, because we are a wonderful community that becomes better through cooperation. And...I am so happy that you are a part of the team and the community.

Love :roe: & hugs :bighug: to you from me,
Di
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Wednesday, October 26th 2011, 6:53pm

Hey guys,

Great discussion you're having here. :)

My little contribution: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/alright

Hugs ^^

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Wednesday, October 26th 2011, 7:29pm

Heyyyy, Lizzie! Good find! 8o
Yes, we see folks using 'alright', all right. It's still considered non-standard in usage. But who knows about tomorrow? :ahaha:
Thanks for joining in the discussion!
((hugs)) from me
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