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46

Tuesday, January 31st 2012, 5:09pm

Really nice info, Diana :smiley:
Any source that he can share so we adjust our guidelines accordingly?
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47

Tuesday, January 31st 2012, 7:27pm

Yeah thanks for the input Diana, that's real valuable to us. I think we're making a lot of progress with all the work we've been doing lately. The transcriptions should look more consistent now, hopefully :)

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48

Wednesday, February 1st 2012, 10:53pm

Yes, Di! with "less busy" I see what you mean. We decided to clear some symbols, here and there in our translations, to avoid distractions. Where we felt it was important to get to whole idea rather than focusing on sigle words. But there aren't "rules", each team of transcribers decide for their own guidelines and there can be exceptions.

hey, Rod! I could think you have a problem with sources :giggle: you're always one step forward, my friend! but you'll discuss on this together with the team before making adjustments! we share a lot of videos and they are of different kinds (maybe we just need to keep lectures and long speeches quite "clean" but you could still like to play with words on the very shorter ones... :ahaha: )

of course, Bruno! not only you've been doing a lot of progress, but you are doing very good :thumbsup: I already told you more than once!!! and you know we'd be lost without transcriptions. It might sounds as exaggerated but it'd keep us ages to translate without a well-done and human made transcript, with fixed timestamp, the glossary... and all the resources we share. Thank you, to all!

Hugs and kisses :)

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49

Monday, February 6th 2012, 10:28am

OK guys, the Guidelines have been updated thanks to the info we collected when proofing Zeitgeist: The movie.

Enjoy! Needless to say that any comments are welcome :)

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Monday, February 6th 2012, 7:44pm

Hey, guys!

I've just proofread the Guidelines! :rofl:

I think this rule could be a little clearer:
When introducing a quotation with words like "He said", "She whispered", "It stated", etc., no punctuation is needed.
How about: When introducing a quotation with words like "He said"...no punctuation is needed to separate "He said" from the direct quote that follows it.

In this example, there needs to be a period at the end:

Rather than speculate, which is what the great majority of public does (and I'm going to talk about it later as an argument that moves against us. People often bring this up.) let's actually think about what we actually know

Under capitalization rules:
Always capitalize President when it refers to the President of the US even when the title is not followed by a name. (example: The President met with members of Congress at the White House yesterday.)

Nicely done, Sweet Bru! :kewl:
((hugs))
Di :bighug:
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51

Tuesday, February 7th 2012, 8:11am

Thanks for the comments, sweet Di, I've made the necessary adjustments :)

Kisses :kiss:

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52

Tuesday, February 7th 2012, 11:21pm

I would like to add something here too: you guys are rockin' in the guidelines business :dance: youhuuuu!! :party: :peace:
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53

Sunday, February 26th 2012, 10:31am

Hey guys,

I think we need a change in the timeshifting guidelines, here's the reasoning:
Most of the time, having 70 characters per string is not a problem when speakers talk at a leisurely pace. But in some instances, that rules creates an impossible situation for translators, where a string is split in two because of that rule and translators can't really use any of those 2 strings because they're cut in an awkward place in relation to their language and they don't have enough flexibility in terms of timing to shift things around and see how it goes. In other words, the English transcription forces translators into adopting its sentence structure, more or less.

My suggestion is to change the rule, saying that transcribers should try and make the strings 70 characters, but that the maximum amount of characters is 85. I think the PJ talk "defining peace" is a good example. When people are faced with an 80 character string, at least they have enough time to convey the meaning of the string, even if that means trimming some less important words. We all know PJ uses words like "intrinsically" that can be easily removed.

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54

Sunday, February 26th 2012, 9:33pm

Seems pretty reasonable to me. Could we synthesize that into: The strings should be cut according to the grammatical rules of the sentence structure, as long as possible but avoiding to go over the limits of <1,5; >6 seconds and <85 characters?

I wonder if 85 characters isn't too much?

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Sunday, February 26th 2012, 10:38pm

We would only mean it as an upper limit never to get across.

To give you some data, in the "defining peace" lecture, in which I experimented with that rule:
15 strings went 80 characters or over = 1% of the total number of strings
4 strings went 85 characters or over = 0.2% of the total number of strings

And we're talking about PJ here, so it's really extreme cases.

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56

Monday, March 26th 2012, 1:15am

Here is a feedback from Oksana, Lithuanian team, which seems very important to consider:

"I don't have an example right now, but that missing punctuation in the end of the line really doesn't help with translating and sometimes might take extra time and effort to understand a long sentence correctly, since we don't get to actually hear how it was said and have the text only. Staring at the sentence trying to figure out (or more like guess, since it's not always obvious) is it supposed to have a colon or just a simple comma in there is no fun."

I can see how heavy the task can become there, loosing time figuring out what the sentence really means, wondering on a possible comma. They could also ask the English Proofers, of course. But I imagine many translators have a poor English level, despite that being the best that some teams have to offer at the moment, and these situations might become frequent in 1 single video. What do you think we could do about this folks? The feedbacks aren't many around this issue but that doesn't mean those situations aren't common. I think they are very much, from my Non-English native perpective; I would guess that the low number of feedbacks like the one from Oksana is more a lack of care for quality, in the mid of the day by day stress wanting that the videos translations be done as soon as possible.

I am thining now on those moments when Jacque throws ideas with half of the words, without building up any sentence with a clear structure. That must be hard for many of the translators.

What could we do to help minimize this situation that Oksana is sharing?
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57

Monday, March 26th 2012, 1:30am

As potentially distracting as I feel they are, I feel the best approach for Oksana's feedback would be to no longer intentionally remove the commas at the end of a string.

As for dealing with partial sentences, I developed a somewhat comprehensive approach to that back when I was proofreading all of Peter's BlogTalk Radio broadcasts. Perhaps we should call for occasional English Proofreading Team voice-chat sessions where we bring up examples and work together to make the Guidelines more precise on how to best handle those. The results could then be shared with all current & potential transcribers.
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58

Monday, March 26th 2012, 2:20am

End punctuation

Here is a feedback from Oksana, Lithuanian team, which seems very important to consider:

"I don't have an example right now, but that missing punctuation in the end of the line really doesn't help with translating and sometimes might take extra time and effort to understand a long sentence correctly, since we don't get to actually hear how it was said and have the text only. Staring at the sentence trying to figure out (or more like guess, since it's not always obvious) is it supposed to have a colon or just a simple comma in there is no fun."


As the guideline rule stands now, we are omitting commas ONLY at the ends of lines. So, the 'quick' answer for Oksana is that the only mark omitted at the end of the line is a comma. If there should be a colon or a semicolon at the end of the line, then it would NOT be omitted. We decided to omit commas because there's a natural pause at the end of the line in English, and the translators who were in attendance at the meeting when we discussed the guideline said this would not be a problem for them.

Having said that, I have no objection to putting the comma back. Jacque is not at all easy to proofread. He speaks slowly, which is nice, but he often doesn't finish sentences and he likes to give examples in story-form with dialogue between two people, often himself and another. We decided to indicate this change of speaker in Jacque's stories with the use of quotation marks, not hyphens, because this would conflict with the use of hyphens when there's an actual change of speakers (as in interviews).

We should probably have another discussion since Paradise or Oblivion has caused us all to revisit what is best for translators. It seems to me in the Eng. Guidelines, we should do whatever makes translation easier. But, what's that? ?(
I hope others answer this discussion topic, so we can know what would be best to do.

Love :love: to all who have worked so hard,
Di
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Monday, March 26th 2012, 2:40am

A conundrum indeed. Actually just conflicting requirements, as they say in my line of work. I agree it'd be a good time to have a live session on TS sometime soon to hammer this out. I'm in NC this week on bizness and only have evenings free, but will be as accommodating as possible.

In the meantime, Teach- I have a dumb question for you: Where do our guidelines actually come from? Are they based on industry standards, for example http://www.ncicap.org/? Or are we kinda making it up as we go along? or what? I wouldn't be surprised if it was the latter, as I doubt even industry "standards" take into account the complexities and nuances of translating into 30+ languages, exactly like we are dealing with now. :) We are pioneers in this regard I think...
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Monday, March 26th 2012, 8:33am

Hey MrB, check out the list of references at the end of the guidelines page.

Those were the only documents in which I could find specific guidelines. I've been looking for scientific papers dealing with captions specifically, but all I could find was related to the perception of sound related to the visual stimulus of the image and how both interacted. Nothing specific to captions. Also, the studies I found which focused on captioning didn't collect enough data (not enough test subjects) and were focusing on the overall perceived quality of captioning rather than on specific points.

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