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Saturday, September 7th 2013, 6:36pm

Guidelines suggestions

Hi fellows,

As I was going through the English team guidelines, a number of suggestions for changes came up. I think the guidelines can be improved in different ways. Starting with this post, I'll be putting the specific guideline points, as they are now, as quotes and then sharing suggestions for improvement below the quote. The differences from the current guidelines will be highlighted in another colour. Also some numeration is introduced for easiness of the discussion afterwards. Here's the link to the guidelines, to use as a reference: http://wiki.linguisticteam.org/w/Linguis…uage_Guidelines


#1

Quoted

Intentional Audio events such as the result of "By round of applause, how many of you feel ..." should be transcribed for the benefit of deaf people. Do not include others unless they are significant to the understanding of what is occurring within the video.

It seems appropriate to add how exactly to transcribe these audio events. Here's how we can do it:

Intentional audio events such as the result of "by round of applause, how many of you feel ..." should be transcribed for the benefit of deaf people. Do not include others unless they are significant to the understanding of what is occurring within the video. When you do decide to transcribe an audio event, put the words inside square brackets, e.g. [clapping].


#2

Quoted

English spelling should be consistent with the locale of the lecture or, if used, the speakers' presentation notes (spelling used on presentation slides, for example). In all cases, members should strive for consistency.

Perhaps what is meant here is not where the lecture is taking place, but what accent the speaker has. If that's the case, we can change it like this:

English spelling should be consistent with the accent of the speaker or, if used, his presentation notes (spelling used on presentation slides, for example).


#3

Quoted

Note: Important phrases like The Venus Project, The Zeitgeist Movement, Resource-Based Economy should be capitalized at the start of all the words. If your language does not readily provide for a translation of these proper terms, please provide them in English for consistency.

This is a guideline that seems pretty important, but the word "Note" suggests that it's a bit of an aside. Also, there doesn't seem to be a need for the second sentence here if these guidelines are specifically for the English team. Would you agree? I think that the guidelines are already quite lengthy and that we don't need to put irrelevant text to people, which can also take the attention away from what's really important. Thus the suggestion for this one:

Important phrases like The Venus Project, The Zeitgeist Movement, Resource-Based Economy should be capitalized at the start of all the words.


#4

Quoted

Acronyms : use acronyms only if they are commonly known ('USA', 'UN', 'NATO'...)

Since just above this we have the guideline about where it's appropriate to use ellipses, I suggest we change this ellipse to the word "etc." in order to avoid confusion or a feeling of inconsistency.


#5

Quoted

For numerals above 1,000, a comma is used to group blocks of thousands together, unless they're denoting years in dates.

I don't understand a part of the guideline here. What does it mean to denote years in dates?


#6

Quoted

The table below shows examples of run-on sentences. An independant clause ends with a period, unless it is followed by another independant clause that is closely related to it (if it uses the same subject, for example) or when using a comma followed by a coordinating conjunction (for, and, nor, but, or, yet, so).

It says that the independent clause ends with a period, but in the examples in the table it shows that it can also end with a semicolon. Should this possible use of a semicolon perhaps be also included in the guideline text?


#7

Quoted

the names of God (

No examples of names given here? :( I can think of Jesus and the Lord. Maybe we can include them in the parentheses together with more?


#8

Quoted

The use of the semicolon in English indicates that what follows the semicolon is an independent clause (complete sentence) in which a conjunction has been omitted. The independent clause that follows the semicolon should be closely related. A colon indicates that what follows defines or explains what precedes it.

The last sentence confused me a bit here, because the guideline refers to the use of semicolons, but that sentence explains the use of the colon and it leaves the feeling that the colon is about to be further explained. To make it less confusing, do you think it makes sense to phrase the sentence like this:

A colon, on the other hand, would indicate that what follows defines or explains what precedes it.


#9

Quoted

You know that 'of course mentality'.

#10

Quoted

... and if you hadn't seen my prior presentations, 'Social Pathology' I strongly suggest them, but that's not the point.

Both of the above sentences shown as examples of correct single quote usage seem to have some mistakes in their punctuation. The second one is easier as it needs a comma after 'Social Pathology' (correct me if I'm wrong). But the first one is a bit more difficult. The way I understand it, it can be punctuated this way:

You know that 'of course' mentality.


A bit of a lengthy post, I know, but all these things made an impression on me and will perhaps be noticed by others who come and read them. Perhaps the less possibility for confusion there is, the faster learning can occur. If you'd like to pitch in and say whether you agree or disagree, for convenience you can reference the examples above with their number.

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Saturday, September 7th 2013, 9:05pm

Perhaps what is meant here is not where the lecture is taking place, but what accent the speaker has. If that's the case, we can change it like this:

English spelling should be consistent with the accent of the speaker or, if used, his presentation notes (spelling used on presentation slides, for example).


I'm not sure that 'accent' is the best wording here. There are many accents just within the state of NC, for example. I think what is meant here is the standard English of the speaker's nationality. As far as I know, British English is the standard English of the English-speaking world, except in the US. As PJ and Jacque are American , we should use the standard English of the US for the spelling. An example, Lizzie, would be your choice of the word 'colour', which is the British spelling. If Jacque or PJ said it, it would be spelled 'color'. If Ben McLeish or Federico Pistano said it, you would be correct with the spelling 'colour'.

This is a guideline that seems pretty important, but the word "Note" suggests that it's a bit of an aside. Also, there doesn't seem to be a need for the second sentence here if these guidelines are specifically for the English team. Would you agree? I think that the guidelines are already quite lengthy and that we don't need to put irrelevant text to people, which can also take the attention away from what's really important. Thus the suggestion for this one:

Important phrases like The Venus Project, The Zeitgeist Movement, Resource-Based Economy should be capitalized at the start of all the words.


Excellent points! I totally agree, Lizzie.

Since just above this we have the guideline about where it's appropriate to use ellipses, I suggest we change this ellipse to the word "etc." in order to avoid confusion or a feeling of inconsistency.


Lol. And yes, that is an inappropriate use of ellipses.

I don't understand a part of the guideline here. What does it mean to denote years in dates?



Years in dates would refer to 2013, for example. This would not be transposed as 2, 013.

It says that the independent clause ends with a period, but in the examples in the table it shows that it can also end with a semicolon. Should this possible use of a semicolon perhaps be also included in the guideline text?


Yes, I would include it.


No examples of names given here? I can think of Jesus and the Lord. Maybe we can include them in the parentheses together with more?


Messiah, Supreme, Almighty, actually I found a list of 102 of them here.

A colon, on the other hand, would indicate that what follows defines or explains what precedes it.

Excellent, yes, I agree.
Both of the above sentences shown as examples of correct single quote usage seem to have some mistakes in their punctuation. The second one is easier as it needs a comma after 'Social Pathology' (correct me if I'm wrong). But the first one is a bit more difficult. The way I understand it, it can be punctuated this way:

You know that 'of course' mentality.



Lizzie, I agree with the first correction. Yes, there should be a comma after 'Social Pathology', and the reason is because it is an appositive phrase for 'prior presentations'. I agree with you about 'of course' mentality.

What a nice examination of the Guidelines, Lizzie! We need to examine them often! :bighug:

My hero :bow:
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Tuesday, October 8th 2013, 4:58pm

Hey there. I read the guidelines yesterday, because I took the tests, so I think I should add my 2 cents, since there were some points which confused me. Hopefully, we can prevent this confusion from happening to new volunteers for the English team.

1) "Transcriptions should be presented in the most accurate grammatical sense in order to preserve the meaning of the original content. "

Does this mean we can alter the order of the sentence?

2) "Numerals: a thousand--> a thousand
one thousand--> 1000"

Shouldn't the last one be 1,000? Also can you please highlight in some way the difference of these 2, because I think it's sneaky? Can you highlight "a" and "one" in both cases?

3) "It is important for us to punctuate according to correct English structure for the translators and not to the speaker's inflexions, which can be misleading."

What meaning does the word "inflexions" have in this context? I don't get it.

4) "Spaces before and after colons are also omitted. "

Are you sure that after colons there are no spaces? For example, is the following example typographically appropriate?
I see constant repeat of the same series of events:war, poverty, recession, again...

5) "The following items are to be capitalized: proper nouns (names of specific people, places, organizations, and sometimes things, family relationships (when used as proper names)"

How can family relationships be proper nouns? Any examples?

6) "Inappropriate: You can only find the answers by innovation; by studying the systems and the problems and working on methods of alleviating those problems, not through law."

How would you make that appropriate?

7) As far as hyphens are concerned, there is inconsistency between the guidelines and the quick reference
Detailed Guidelines: "the hyphen ("-") is used to convey an exchange between two or more people...The hyphen, in this case, is always followed by a space"
Quick Reference: "In a dialogue where speakers are visible on screen, use a hyphen directly followed by text. Separate each speaker by two spaces. (-Do you like that? -Yes.) "


And of course all the other things you guys wrote!
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Tuesday, October 8th 2013, 5:07pm

Great! Awesome input, guys!

I've been pretty busy and unable to turn my attention to this. How about we make this a topic for our next meeting and apply all agreed-upon changes then, right at the meeting?

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Tuesday, October 8th 2013, 7:18pm

Great! I will add it to the agenda. Is this active? http://sync.in/LT-Meeting-Agenda I hasn't been since April.
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Wednesday, October 9th 2013, 3:32pm

Yep, that's the link to the meeting's agenda.

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Monday, March 17th 2014, 11:10am

Can someone check this? Commas in run-on sentences

"Adam Smith, for example, never would have fathomed that we would have
the largest industry in the world today being the financial sector, and
people trading and gambling and having a gambling casino economy that we
have today with equities and futures and currencies." -PJ, Boom and Bust, RT, 1:40

Is this punctuated correctly?
Is a semicolon or colon appropriate? And if so, where?

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Monday, March 17th 2014, 5:03pm

Hi, Roger
This is a long complex sentence with many compound parts, but there's nothing wrong with the punctuation. It has so many dependent clauses in it, that causes us to suspect that it might be a run-on, or need more punctuation. But it's really ok. Here's what we've got:

Adam Smith, for example, never would have fathomed (this is the main clause, and what comes next in blue is a dependent noun clause, actually used as the direct object of the verb 'would have fathomed') that we would have
the largest industry in the world today being the financial sector, and
people trading and gambling and having a gambling casino economy that we
have today with equities and futures and currencies.
(and this dependent clause used as a direct object of the verb 'would have fathomed' has within it multiple compound parts). BUT... THERE'S ONLY ONE MAIN CLAUSE IN THE SENTENCE. As written English, it could be better constructed, but when it's in a video, we don't worry so much about sentence structure, I guess, because it's spoken.

Ok... so, I probably told you more than you needed to know. :giggle: But I just felt it important to show some rationale behind the whole thing.

Thanks for asking such a great question!
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Monday, March 17th 2014, 5:06pm

One more thing...

If you want to put a comma after 'and people trading and gambling', I could go for that. I think it clarifies the phrasing a bit.
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