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Monday, August 19th 2013, 12:45am

Suggestion on the Assessment of Items Suggested for Translation

This document will include:
- 1st Part: A Suggestion for the Assessment of Items Suggested for Translation (how to evaluate if they are in line with what we wish to promote - transition to an RBE - and so include them in the list of works?)
- 2nd Part: A development of the question: How can we involve more volunteers, considering that the list of projects is growing?

Before diving into this document, be sure you are acquainted with the current situation, in what concerns:
- The Wiki table with all the video projects in the Linguistic Team list (Open the tab 'English Proofreading and Timestamp Adjustment' to see all projects that aren't yet open for translation but on their way already)
http://wiki.linguisticteam.org/w/Linguis…a_Center/Videos

- The Repository, which shows in the last column how many language translations are completed and proofread in each project that is already open for translations (They are separated by sources - TVP, TZM, Peter Joseph, etc)
http://wiki.linguisticteam.org/w/Linguis…nter/Repository

- Here is the forum location where you can find all the translation suggestions that were or not added to the list of works in the English team
http://forum.linguisticteam.org/board217…ation-requests/


So let’s start with the strategy:
The same way when proofreading a translation, the more eyes and minds pass through the document and analyse it the better. Also, analysing the topics on a video, and how relevant and in accordance they are with the need for a transition to a RBE, is a way of learning about this direction. This is one the parts where is most of the fun in all of this and volunteers to do it shouldn’t be lacking. And while comparing the video contents with the TZM and TVP referents, that will help develop the effort of tagging all materials in order to improve its reach in search engines, creation of thematic playlists, etc.

Ok, now we need the same method and the same tools to be used by all if we want coherence and reduce the chance of getting lost in semantics and opinions. Those tools would include: a) a list of criteria, and b) the TVP and the TZM Websites as the 2 locations used as reference/benchmark to evaluate the document in analysis with those criteria.
(The list of criteria is further down, after we explain the method shared by all to use it)

I guess we are ready to define a Method:
- When a document comes out or is suggested, someone suggests it in the same forum section as usual and posts that forum thread in the facebook group in order to appeal for the participation of others that aren’t so aware. It can help a lot to bring the topic to the LTI biweekly meetings too. That forum thread can be used by all who wish to add in which ways they saw the relevancy of the video contents for translation and how they are aligned with the benchmarks of the TVP and TZM websites and other platforms... or not. The 1st post in the forum thread can be edited and updated with the conclusions of what was discussed in the different replies.

- When the criteria are filled in the forum thread, we will read the paragraphs added by each others and help compare them with the referents in the TZM and TVP sources. If not clearly in line, we exclude that content from being relevant (or put it directly to TZM or TVP) and so use that conclusion to put in cause the relevancy of the material, at least in its integral form; (we can always consider cutting (editing) the irrelevant parts, etc)

When a material is arrived at as being relevant to add to the list of works, that is a good moment to determine a strategy on how to involve more people, in promoting the need for transcribers, time-shifters and translators for that project, while making the language teams aware of the new projects and what is most relevant to translate. Surely the person who suggested the project will have a hard time to do it herself and probably doesn’t have the technical skills to do it with the desired quality, so other volunteers need to be engaged. The need for volunteers who have the know how or are willing to learn is a technical issue that needs the help of everyone in promoting those needs.


List of Criteria (what the doc for each project will ask)
1. Does the vídeo/text include information that helps understand the direction contained in the Venus Project and Zeitgeist Movement main sources? (Websites, Orientation Guides, YouTube channels, etc. The focus is mankind’s need of transition to a Resource Based Economy and the technical understandings, way of thinking and value shift that goes with it)
Add the relevancy of the content and not just a name of a topic. For example, “Human Nature” is a topic, but it does not tell if the material approaches it in a way that explains how human behaviour is not fixed but actually a result of the influence of the environment - which is what is contained in the sources of TZM and TVP as understandings that support the RBE direction for mankind.

2. Are there copyright issues with this material? Can they be solved in a way that allows us to make it public when including the translations?

3. Are there misconceptions or parts that aren’t relevant which can be misleading from our focus? Can this be improved? (editing the materials before adding them, for example;)

4. Is the material quality in terms of image, sound, readability, etc, allowing for its clear understanding and to keep it’s attractiveness? Can this be improved? [Can we establish parameters for this?]

5. Is this content already in the list of works of the LTI? (If it is the same lecture but given in a different city in a different time, it is the same content, for example)

6. Considering LTI is a volunteer system, what do you suggest towards having this project completed. Ex: English transcription, proofreading, synchronizing, translation, etc?


So, lets get into the 2nd Part now...
How can we involve more volunteers, considering that the list of projects is growing?

Adding videos to youtube and dotsub, create a forum thread and add a reference to a tablein a wiki page doesn’t necessarily make people aware of its existence. We can add as many videos as we wish and still no sign of outer intelligence approaching them in order to transcribe or translate them.
Some efforts have been made by a few volunteers to promote as much as possible the projects of the LTI, independently of in which stage or language the volunteers were needed, and this was done mostly by volunteers of what we usually call the ‘admin group’. The conclusions I (nomada) take from it are that it works quite well to promote the projects, if done regularly and in platforms where many people put their focus at, like TZM or TVP’s main platforms of websites, youtubes, facebooks, etc. But these admin group volunteers are also translators, proofreaders, timeshifters, language team coordinators, developers, and in some instances they are all of these at once. And that, together with the monetary offline life, is a big limitation on those efforts. So, it seems that one big need is for the participation of more people.

Some strategies to help make more people aware of what there is to be done and how they can help, some very good ones, were suggested and discussed but then lacks people to apply them. Examples of these strategies are:
- Add a link and invitation to join to the end of the subtitles, from the english transcript to the translations, in all LTI subtitles, starting on the most relevant/watched videos;
- Include the info on how to help transcribing and translating to the video descriptions of the projects, mostly in the original uploads which have the most views and are usualy in the TZM and TVP youtube channels;
- etc... feel free to develop these projects and/or add more strategies that come to your mind.
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  • "Jimmy Page Jr (Chris Pap)" is male

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Monday, August 19th 2013, 2:20pm

Hey guys, I would like to add 2 things.

1) We tried to develop a strategy for suggested videos in the greek team too. The method was plain and simple. When someone adds a video in the suggested videos list, we discuss it on the next meeting. If we have all seen it, we discuss whether it is in line with our train of thought so that we know if we will put it in future/active projects or not. If we haven't seen it, we agree to watch in the next week and discuss it on the next meeting. I hope it helps.

2) Rod, could you please make posts like this shorter? I know it's very tough with posts like these technical ones, but I have found out (by my posts in the greek team) that long posts tend to be ignored by members who do not have the patience to read a long post. I know that, of course, we cannot "please" anybody, but with these issues, I think that we need as much help as we can get. We will never know what others think if we do not get their opinion.

Rod, I am sorry if this sounds like criticism, but for me, as Mark Twain wrote, "the only good manners is saying the truth". If we do not listen to our fellow humans, we will never become better. I am sorry if it sounds rude, but I am honest to you as I want everyone to be honest to me. Much love :)
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  • "nomada" started this thread

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Monday, August 19th 2013, 2:49pm

I'm just glad with your input, Christos. Yeah, long posts tend to be ignored, that we verify in the terrain all-right :D
I'll try to make them shorter ;)

Sounds like a nice proposal, to discuss the projects suggested for translation in the meetings. What if you folks are divided? Voting is not very scientific. What do you think about the list of criteria and the method suggested on my post?
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Monday, August 19th 2013, 10:03pm

You are right, Nomada. I never thought about it this way. It is not scientific. We used that way because we are essentially only 3 active members and we almost always agree, but that doesn't mean we are right. You have to have some objective criteria in order to test your hypothesis. That's the scientific method that we advocate, isn't it?

See, that's exactly what I meant, Rod. If you didn't tell me, I wouldn't be aware of it. That's why honesty is so important in these cases.

Now, about the method you suggest, I have to understand at first what you stated. Can you please explain me this paragraph, because I didn't understand it:
- When the criteria are filled in the forum thread, we will read the paragraphs added by each others and help compare them with the referents in the TZM and TVP sources. If not clearly in line, we exclude that content from being relevant (or put it directly to TZM or TVP) and so use that conclusion to put in cause the relevancy of the material, at least in its integral form; (we can always consider cutting (editing) the irrelevant parts, etc)

Who and when will read the paragraphs? When will we make the reference? What do you mean by "use that conclusion to put in cause the relevancy of the material, at least in its integral form"?
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  • "nomada" started this thread

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Monday, August 19th 2013, 11:20pm

- When the criteria are filled in the forum thread, we will read the paragraphs added by each others and help compare them with the referents in the TZM and TVP sources. If not clearly in line, we exclude that content from being relevant (or put it directly to TZM or TVP) and so use that conclusion to put in cause the relevancy of the material, at least in its integral form; (we can always consider cutting (editing) the irrelevant parts, etc)

Who and when will read the paragraphs? When will we make the reference? What do you mean by "use that conclusion to put in cause the relevancy of the material, at least in its integral form"?
Someone posts a suggestion of a video for translation. That person, and all the folks interested (we hope many), will reply to that thread sharing what they think of the video, how relevant it is for the direction we advocate. If we wish to be successful in assessing, all together, how much that video is relevant, we need to use the same criteria for evaluation. So, what is important as criteria? Here is a suggestion (quoted from the 1st post in this thread):
1. Does the vídeo/text include information that helps understand the direction contained in the Venus Project and Zeitgeist Movement main sources? (Websites, Orientation Guides, YouTube channels, etc. The focus is mankind’s need of transition to a Resource Based Economy and the technical understandings, way of thinking and value shift that goes with it)

Add the relevancy of the content and not just a name of a topic. For example, “Human Nature” is a topic, but it does not tell if the material approaches it in a way that explains how human behaviour is not fixed but actually a result of the influence of the environment - which is what is contained in the sources of TZM and TVP as understandings that support the RBE direction for mankind.

2. Are there copyright issues with this material? Can they be solved in a way that allows us to make it public when including the translations?

3. Are there misconceptions or parts that aren’t relevant which can be misleading from our focus? Can this be improved? (editing the materials before adding them, for example;)

4. Is the material quality in terms of image, sound, readability, etc, allowing for its clear understanding and to keep it’s attractiveness? Can this be improved? [Can we establish parameters for this?]

5. Is this content already in the list of works of the LTI? (If it is the same lecture but given in a different city in a different time, it is the same content, for example)

6. Considering LTI is a volunteer system, what do you suggest towards having this project completed. Ex: English transcription, proofreading, synchronizing, translation, etc?
Point number one consists in comparing the contents in the video with the contents in the TVP and TZM platforms. Why do we use TVP and TZM as our benchmarks? Obvious, isn't it? :D If the info in the video (or parts of it) is not in accordance to what TVP and TZM advocate, it might be that we don't wish to spend efforts in it.
Who and when will read the paragraphs?
Anyone who cares enough, whenever they want. LTI is a volunteer system. Any volunteers? I think at least the person who suggested the project is interested.
What do you mean by "use that conclusion to put in cause the relevancy of the material, at least in its integral form"?
After what everyone shared in the forum thread, we might have enough to be able to tell if the project is relevant or not. It might be that only the last 10 minutes are relevant. Well, in that case, maybe we can edit the video and still upload those 10 minutes. Is it worth it? Anyone volunteers? Etc... Basically, all that which very few people have done until now, but this time inviting more people to help with it.

I hope it was clearer. Not that short this time either :embarrassed:
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Wednesday, August 21st 2013, 12:01am

Nomada wrote: "I hope it was clearer. Not that short this time either "






HAHHAHAHA!!! Don't worry, Rod. One day you will get it. Maybe, you should stop watching Joseph's lectures, for starters :)
And yes, it was clearer. I will try it in a "suggested" post and you tell me if I got it.
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