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[Testing] LTI System Manager

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Thursday, March 21st 2013, 7:31am

Status of videos

About the "Proposed by" stage, it might be quite counterproductive to have such stage. First, because it is a system for the materials that are actually being worked on. If there is no work being done on the material, there's no point in including it in the system, or at least that's my understanding of all of this.
I agree with you, if this system is only for stuff we actually work on it's counterproductive.

My intention by proposing this status was to bring some transparency to the process happening before a video is accepted for translation, because I still don't understand myself who does what in that case. Who decides which videos can be translated ? How long does it take from the time someone proposes a video until it's actually open for transcription ? It looks like a big black box to me, and it makes me uneasy. I thought that by including this step in the process, we could be more open about it, and maybe get some excellent videos which we wouldn't have thought of. But you are right, this step doesn't belong to the transcribing-translating-proofreading-publishing workflow. It could be another section altogether.

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Thursday, March 21st 2013, 7:34pm

Hi developers! You are doing an amazing job!
I want to offer my services as a tester once you have something visible and usable by non-coders.
My point of view as a lambda user could be useful, to avoid too much complexity.
Do you have a sitemap yet ?
I don't know if you already have people doing this for you, but anyway I thought I would mention it.
Don't hesitate to contact me if you need to test something "from outside".
Cheers :smiley:
Marlyse
Thank you Marlyse. The first version of this system will be avaliable soon and we really need some help with testing.

So, I would suggest:

repo_storage_location (representing dotSUB's Repo location)
  • Typical data would be a link to dotSUB's location
  • http://dotsub.com/view/482f9113-c1a3-4af9-b039-e9e2deee6e43

repo_distribution_location (representing the portal's distribution location)
Ok done!



A Top Priority item would need to be displayed in deep red to immediately draw attention to that aspect (not only in its own description page, but also when included in a table listing or as a search result)
High priority could be more of an orange
Medium as yellow
etc.
I'm not sure if this is "understandable" enough. I mean... color can present many things. Do you have example where something like this is applied?
Also, we still need a legend just to show that 'red' is important and 'blue' isn't. Besides that, I can't see so much difference between '10' and '13', for instance.

Do we really need more than 5 levels of priority?
I think a jQuery plugin can handle that very easily: http://www.fyneworks.com/jquery/star-rating/

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Thursday, March 21st 2013, 8:05pm


My intention by proposing this status was to bring some transparency to the process happening before a video is accepted for translation, because I still don't understand myself who does what in that case. Who decides which videos can be translated ? How long does it take from the time someone proposes a video until it's actually open for transcription ?
I think the english departament can answer that better than me.

I just want to add that sometimes I feel that the non-english teams need to have a tool to register material that didn't come from the english team. That won't be available in the firsts versions of this system because it can be a tricky thing, but we can think about implement such features in the near future.

When I said it can be 'tricky' I mean that, for instance: some people always came to me saying: "I think we should translate that...".
And 'that' is usually a video:

- with video resolution 240p. :speechless:
- without or with poor transcription; :whew:
- the team-stamp is terrible; 8|
- it has more than 120 chars per line. :S

So, as a coordinator, I can't made some videos avaliable for everyone because they have poor quality. People in the LTI want to help because they trust the process and their time and energy are really important.

I believe people only can 'suggest' new videos when they actually want to work in that video right away, and they need to know exactly what is good for translation and what isn't based in a preview analysis of the material (quality, transcription, time-stamp, etc).

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Thursday, March 21st 2013, 8:15pm

I'm thinking now about 'users privileges'.

Like any other system, some people can see and edit some stuff and others not.
For non-english teams, I believe COORDINATOR and TRANSLATOR are 'privileges' that can handle most of the things.
But I'm not sure what is needed for the english team. Can you suggest another role that comes between 1 e 2?



1 - SUPER_USER - can see/edit everything, can modify other times
2 - COORDINATOR - can see/edit everything on his team.
3 - TRANSLATOR - can only see/edit somethings on his team.


What exactly in the english team need to be avaliable only for some people?

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Thursday, March 21st 2013, 10:09pm

I am a bit lost in these questions. Are we talking about editing the transcriptions, opening them, closing, etc?
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Friday, March 22nd 2013, 1:06am

I am a bit lost in these questions. Are we talking about editing the transcriptions, opening them, closing, etc?
I'm talking about all the process of the english team, from transcription to the video is open for translations.

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Friday, March 22nd 2013, 3:28am

I'm not sure if this is "understandable" enough. I mean... color can present many things. Do you have example where something like this is applied?
Also, we still need a legend just to show that 'red' is important and 'blue' isn't. Besides that, I can't see so much difference between '10' and '13', for instance.

Do we really need more than 5 levels of priority?
I think a jQuery plugin can handle that very easily: http://www.fyneworks.com/jquery/star-rating/

Ah, I should have been clearer.
I included the color strip only to highlight how visible multiple colors are when compared to a set of single color stars. The idea is that we would use a 5 star system that would change in color intensity as it approaches all five stars (top priority). A light blue implies 'cold' or low priority, while red means 'hot' or very high priority. I had not given the number of stars (or length of a color box, etc.) any thought, however.

We can go with the jquery star system. If it proves to not be enough, we can always adjust it later. 8)

I believe people only can 'suggest' new videos when they actually want to work in that video right away, and they need to know exactly what is good for translation and what isn't based in a preview analysis of the material (quality, transcription, time-stamp, etc).

Absolutely! We need to make it much clearer that LTI provides the tools, experience and a ton of global support for anyone wanting to translate, but that they can't just throw a suggestion at us and run away. The person suggesting the transcription/translation effort needs to be a part of that effort. We need to add a sticky thread to the Suggestions section of the forum that explains that the person suggesting first needs to locate the best quality version of the material and also supply any already existing transcription/translation attempts, so that we wouldn't have to duplicate all of that effort if the material is accepted into the system.
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Friday, March 22nd 2013, 6:01am

Like any other system, some people can see and edit some stuff and others not.
For non-english teams, I believe COORDINATOR and TRANSLATOR are 'privileges' that can handle most of the things.
But I'm not sure what is needed for the english team. Can you suggest another role that comes between 1 e 2?

1 - SUPER_USER - can see/edit everything, can modify other times
2 - COORDINATOR - can see/edit everything on his team.
3 - TRANSLATOR - can only see/edit somethings on his team.

Quoted

What exactly in the English team need to be available only for some people?

We're now moving into the more advanced areas of project handling within the app, which I hope is a very good sign of our progression. ;)

There are a number of different angles from which we can ponder access & need for access. However, I limit my own thinking to what is needed to protect everyone's full right to privacy (protecting their personal info) as well as protecting all of their hard work (keeping the transcription, proofreading, translation, time-stamp adjusting, etc. efforts safe from harm, whether accidental or intentional). To that end:

  • I have never liked 'super'-anything. No one here is any more important or 'super' than anyone else. We only handle various roles based on what we are able and willing to give freely to the community. As such, I would prefer this to more simply be labeled ADMINISTRATOR.
  • In between 1&2 above, we need an access setting for people who may volunteer to help with certain admin-level functions, but on a limited focus. Until we have a working alpha version, it is still a bit difficult to look forward to tasks that might come under such a role, but we already expect that members of the PR Group will likely need access to check off various ToDo tasks as they are completed and provide additional information to the database, such as new locations where a language team's now-completed official translation can be found.
  • We're striving to move away from the idea of a single 'coordinator' handling all tasks for a team by him or herself, as that has proven to be too much strain/stress on many of them (too many give up trying to some degree or burn themselves out trying). I'm sure some of this has to do with them not remaining close enough to the global support to truly learn how to make it much easier on themselves, but I also don't see a way to prevent them from wandering off thinking that they can handle it all by themselves before they have learned enough. So, maybe we should adjust the label for the second one above to COORDINATION, where the handling of tasks can possibly attract others to chip in and spread out the tasks across multiple teammates, perhaps even negating the above issues.
  • A single role like "Translator" may work well as the only label needed for a non-English language team, but it may be too limited for the entirety of LTI's system. I'm going to take a bit more time to give this some deeper thought. :tongue:
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Saturday, March 23rd 2013, 8:11pm

Hi,

A preview of the new system:



Some feedback will be nice! :)

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Saturday, March 23rd 2013, 8:46pm

So to repeat my FB post just now: Michael this is fantastic! Great work! I look forward to using it. And also your video was superbly done. Very good intro and training.


So on that note just stumbling in here from FB and seeing this thread for the first time, WOW! Lotta stuff happening in here; 4 pages worth. I want to take some time to read thru it all and catch up so I'm in sync with you all.
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Sunday, March 24th 2013, 8:12am

Wow! This is coming along very nicely, Michael! :bow:


Requested feedback:
  • The label for "Final Proofreading" needs to be adjusted to something like "Post-Proofreading" or "Extra Proofreading", to keep it from being so easily confused with the "Final Review" stage. The word "Final" should only apply to the 'final' step before opening it (or sending it back for more proofreading)
  • I don't see any entry point to enter who is handling the Final Review. While Di is currently handling the tasks by herself, she is building the structure to eventually 'graduate' additional master proofreaders to break up the tasks and help speed up the entire system. We must have a way of referencing this important info within the database.
  • I'd very much prefer to have the ability to go back into a project to update information as it becomes known (or if the previously entered info proves to be wrong). The video shows that this may not be possible, considering the way it locks down everything once it is released for translation.
  • Can a null 'header' label be given to the Category & member fields so that the drop-down boxes say something like "Select Category" and "Select Member" by default, instead of showing one of the sources and the name of the person at the top of the alphabetical list? The Category one is especially worrisome, since it will be far too easy for someone to forget to set that and accidentally attribute a TVP, PJ or even external project to TZM (as it is currently set up). So, if a person does not intentionally select one, the app will throw them an error state asking them to fill in the missing field.
  • Finally, how does someone register in the system? Will coordinators be able to add the other active members of their team, as needed?

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Sunday, March 24th 2013, 2:06pm



Requested feedback:
  • The label for "Final Proofreading" needs to be adjusted to something like "Post-Proofreading" or "Extra Proofreading", to keep it from being so easily confused with the "Final Review" stage. The word "Final" should only apply to the 'final' step before opening it (or sending it back for more proofreading)


Done!

  • I don't see any entry point to enter who is handling the Final Review. While Di is currently handling the tasks by herself, she is building the structure to eventually 'graduate' additional master proofreaders to break up the tasks and help speed up the entire system. We must have a way of referencing this important info within the database.

Added!
  • I'd very much prefer to have the ability to go back into a project to update information as it becomes known (or if the previously entered info proves to be wrong). The video shows that this may not be possible, considering the way it locks down everything once it is released for translation.

It can be done!
  • Can a null 'header' label be given to the Category & member fields so that the drop-down boxes say something like "Select Category" and "Select Member" by default, instead of showing one of the sources and the name of the person at the top of the alphabetical list? The Category one is especially worrisome, since it will be far too easy for someone to forget to set that and accidentally attribute a TVP, PJ or even external project to TZM (as it is currently set up). So, if a person does not intentionally select one, the app will throw them an error state asking them to fill in the missing field.

Okey dokey... done!
  • Finally, how does someone register in the system? Will coordinators be able to add the other active members of their team, as needed?

Big question...


I thought in two differents ways to handle that:

1 - The member register in the site and becomes member of the LTI. He/she doesn't need authorization from a coordinator to start to operate in the system (again... at least not in the first versions of the system).

2 - The coordinator register the member on the system. The only data required is 'Name' e 'email'. His state is 'WAINTING_FOR_CONFIRMATION'.
An email is sent for the member. It say: click here to be part of the linguistic team.

It redirects the member to a page that only says:
Confirm your email address and create a password.

Just it. The member state is now 'ACTIVE'.

In short: invited by coordinator->an email is sent->click on the link->confirm his/her email->create a password

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Sunday, March 24th 2013, 3:00pm

OK so having read thru all this I have these things to say:
  • To reiterate, this is fantastic! It is the "database-ization" of the LTI processes and is a very welcome addition as the team evolves. And yes- of the many beneficial aspects of this tool, two of the most important are scalability and ease of use as both the workloads and the teams grow, respectively.

  • Besides his great illustrative videos, the fact that Micheal is putting up his design information at basically the pseudo-code record level and we are providing him detailed feedback on it, is also way cool. As an ex-software developer myself I would call this a developer's dream, to get such detailed feedback up front, instead of guesswork now and possible major rework later (as Michael himself hints). With this much input to Michael up front I'm sure we'll all be happy with the final result. Keep it coming!

  • That said, I have two pieces of feedback myself:
  1. (Functional feedback) Regarding nailing down the actual task flow, and speaking frankly about this for the first time, the recent notion of late to perhaps move timestamp shifting after PR2, instead of before as in the traditional manner, is causing me a little heartburn. As you all know I've spent a fair amount of time in English PR2 myself and so feel qualified to say that: I never looked at it as just PR2, I looked at as more 'PR2 plus timeshifting review'. It is (was) part of my regular routine to carefully review and tweak them both (and my submitted diff files often reflect this), so that when I called it done to me it was 99.9% finished and the FR person should find only tiny pieces of lint-type corrections so to speak. And I think this certainly worked (usually with myself in PR2 handing off to Sweet Lady Di for FR). Net, to me it was always more like "PR2/PF", ie "Proofread2/Pre-Final" review. But now, moving the timestamps after PR2 really wrecks this model for me because the piece is nowhere near final after Proofread. Just sayin. It's like I feel suddenly neutered LOL!!

  2. (Design feedback) With my most recent endeavor to clear out the backlog of post-lockdown error posts--some over a year old--it has become painfully clear that they could be translated of course into many languages by now, and so the error must be corrected across all those languages in order to be flagged in a ''clean" state again on the main page. Even though it may be viewed as a nuisance, I humbly suggest this be a straight AND gate design so it is not cleared to green (ie, still in 'repair' mode as suggested or perhaps 'translation repair' mode as a variation thereof) until the very last language reports in as fixed. But wait- what if the Bulgarian or other <fill in the blank> translator has disappeared and there's been no one to replace him/her for the past 6 months? Answer: then 'translation repair' status stays amber (annoyingly) for six months. This would serve as a constant reminder to the collective that this particular correction still needs to be done.

My last remark isn't really tool-related but instead is around the more philosophical point of the choice/selection of vids to work on in the first place, and several people have been asking about this also I see. Frankly I haven't really cared up to this point because the pipleline of vids has thus far seemed relevant and worthy of doing, and at the same time I had no particular vid that I wanted to nominate. Well, that just changed and I *do* have a vid I want to nominate for translation, but in order not to hijack this thread I will not reveal it here. Perhaps instead I'll say jump on a Saturday TeamSpeak session and pitch it to the team then.

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Monday, March 25th 2013, 12:43pm

(Functional feedback) Regarding nailing down the actual task flow, and speaking frankly about this for the first time, the recent notion of late to perhaps move timestamp shifting after PR2, instead of before as in the traditional manner, is causing me a little heartburn. As you all know I've spent a fair amount of time in English PR2 myself and so feel qualified to say that: I never looked at it as just PR2, I looked at as more 'PR2 plus timeshifting review'. It is (was) part of my regular routine to carefully review and tweak them both (and my submitted diff files often reflect this), so that when I called it done to me it was 99.9% finished and the FR person should find only tiny pieces of lint-type corrections so to speak. And I think this certainly worked (usually with myself in PR2 handing off to Sweet Lady Di for FR). Net, to me it was always more like "PR2/PF", ie "Proofread2/Pre-Final" review. But now, moving the timestamps after PR2 really wrecks this model for me because the piece is nowhere near final after Proofread. Just sayin. It's like I feel suddenly neutered LOL!!
I think that we need to keep the workflow very logical, and therefore the proposal to put timestamp shifting after PR2 is valid. The fact that you are used to do both is no problem, you would still be able to do it within the PR2, and the person who takes on the timeshifting would then have less work to do. But in cases where the timeshifter and proofreader are two different persons, the PR1 - PR2 - Timeshifting sequence is the correct one in my view.

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Monday, March 25th 2013, 1:36pm

User feedback on DotSub Repository location interface

Michael, I am really impressed at the speed with which you are developing this tool, and your careful consideration of the feedback you receive.
The purpose here is to provide a tool that is simple for everybody to use, with clear user-friendly fields, and you are doing just that ! Thanks again.

I clicked on the link provided by Ray to the Ben McLeish DotSub repository location, and here is my user feedback (now I don't know if this is really DotSub default stuff or your development).
1) I really like the larger font, much more readable than the usual.
2) When clicking on the Share tab, I get a lot of nice options, but they all give me only the choice to Copy to Clipboard. What do I do after that ? I would prefer the usual "share to facebook", etc...
2) I especially like the option of sharing a video with embedded language subtitles ! This is great !
3) On the right hand column, in the options to download transcripts, when you choose "multilanguage transcript download" the only option you get after that is "All langauges" (there is a typo there). Will there be a choice available between the languages that a video already has ? What is needed, especially for proofreading purposes, is the English + one other language of choice.

Hope this is useful. :smiley:

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