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  • "nitrofurano" is male
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Friday, September 13th 2013, 7:24pm

PMS: "Common European Framework of Reference for Languages" (A1 to C2) instead of just "yes" or "no"

from http://members.linguisticteam.org/pms/members/edit_language i'm only seeing "Yes" or "No" - what about, instead of this, using from "A1" to "C2", like from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Euro…e_for_Languages?

i'm suggesting this because, my level of fluency is far different from Portuguese (probably C2), than i have in Castilian, English and Italian (probably B1 or B2), or German, French, Arabic or Japanese (probably A1 or A2) - and think this kind of information is good for us having about each other, as reference or statistics - what do you all think?

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Saturday, September 14th 2013, 1:34am

Wow. This makes GREAT sense, Paulo!! ... At least to me! What a great idea! Let's see what the Admins. say! :)

People are asked to be aware of their level of proficiency in a given language, but something like this would help greatly, I think, 'cause it spells out in a format (in detail) what equates each level. That is extremely helpful and very useful information -- on both sides! For those trying to see where they fit into a language proficiency, and for the language coordinators to organize and develop the teams! Cool! :clap: :thumbup:

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Saturday, September 14th 2013, 4:11pm

Let me clarify something...

That table is NOT to define your level of proficiency in a given language!
You just have to inform the language you would like to work in and then the system enables the "I'm going in!" button for you when you access the videos of the given language.

Just it! ;)

Got it?

I'm going to create a text that explain what that table should suppose do to and insert on the top of it.

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Saturday, September 14th 2013, 5:37pm

That table is NOT to define your level of proficiency in a given language!
You just have to inform the language you would like to work in and then the system enables the "I'm going in!" button for you when you access the videos of the given language.
Oh. Ok, Michael. :) But it would still be awesome for our language teams to have some type of guide for people that spells out where they fit into a given language, proficiency-wise. If a language is not your native tongue, a person may be able to help with certain things in that language but not be as effective in helping with others. And if a person is not native or fluent in a language, they may not be very clear what their true level of proficiency is! A lot of energy and talent can be wasted -- with someone thinking they are more proficient than they actually are, or the reverse, someone may be intimidated from attempting to help in a language in which they have some level of proficiency, altogether, simply because they don't know they have anything valuable to contribute!

A table or guideline such as this would be an awesome tool, in my opinion, to aid people in accurately assessing their level of proficiency, so they know where they fit in! Then, we can have programs of learning and teaching, by those more proficient and fluent, for those interested in helping in languages in which they are not native. (We can also take advantage of talent that may assume they have nothing to add to a language's efforts (because they assume they are not skilled enough, when, in fact, they may be for a particular task). I think something like this will be monumentally helpful to the language teams. Everyone can honestly just "begin where they're at", and then improve and grow from there. :) Win, Win. :) Yay!!! :)

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Saturday, September 14th 2013, 8:55pm

How can anyone say no to you? :loveya:

If you're telling me that the level of proficiency is a relevant information than I'm considering to create a new column in the table that handles that (technically speaking).

It may take some days to implement that but it will be there.

Thanks for the suggestions! You guys are great!!!

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Sunday, September 15th 2013, 11:57am

I also think this is indeed a good suggestion that might turn out to be very helpful. But I'm wondering if the better place for it is in the Member Portal's profiles of the members, rather than in the PMS. We already have information in the profiles that allows people to put in their skills and interests. Is it possible to add an additional field with language competences, Ray?

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Sunday, September 15th 2013, 2:36pm

Before Ray say anything I just want to add that including that information just require a new column in a table that we already have. So, from the point of view of development, that is not an huge change.
But maybe Ray have another suggestion.

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Sunday, September 15th 2013, 2:41pm

In order to know how skilled you are in any given language and in accordance to those levels suggested by nitro, we have to make a test, right?

I am not seeing that data becoming useful. If I have a good level of English, I still might not be very good at translating it to Portuguese (my mother tongue), because there is a 'game' of turning one grammatical form and its expressions into the other language most common terms of saying the same.
In the beginning I was proofreading and I was lousy at it when compared with today. And that was no reason to stop doing it because we didn't have enough proofreaders to deal with all the projects, so we use what we have and learn/improve (my language level of A, B or C wouldn't be relevant; and if my A#B#C# level was low and I still wish to use the LTI as a practice environment to improve my skills while sharing that with other volunteers, why not?). If we wouldn't participate because we don't have a certain level in a test, we would never learn. So, I find it a much better referent to help us arrive at better decisions when we observe, for example, that there are 2 or 3 good proofreaders that can handle a few projects with regularity and that tells me I wont be of much help there but rather translating or doing something else. Or the situation that there is no one around to help and we are only 2 volunteers in this language team; then one proofreads the other, since that is all that you've got, anyway. I don't see the practical application of the language levels. If we had 30 active volunteers in a language team and needed to draw a plan for proofreading each others, then it could be useful to help everyone know if the person which I am proofreading has a better level than me in both languages. But still she misses some typos like everyone else, no matter what level the person has.

So, that's how I am seeing it now. If I missed your point, please help me get there :D
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Sunday, September 15th 2013, 8:24pm

@ Michael, Awww, thank you. :lashes: :)

@ nomada, I thought it was a good idea to help a person (and the respective coordinators) establish his or her accurate level of proficiency, as a starting point, and for information's sake only. As a tool to help, not hinder. I, certainly, am not suggesting that people not participate because they don't have a certain level of proficiency on some test! The question is where to begin! I was thinking that it was good information, honestly. You ask specifically in the guidelines for people to be aware of their true level of proficiency in a given language, and for people to work w/in their mother-tongue. But sometimes people are not working in their mother-tongues, and are not aware of their true level of ability: one way or the other. And we are all "linguists" here, to some degree or another (most have some interest in languages) and many enjoy learning and challenging themselves (and contributing) in languages that are not their native. (And sometimes people feel as if they are native, when indeed they're not; for whatever reason. And this can cause a lot of extra and unneeded work all around, which is not intentional. :/.) So, I thought it would be useful to have a table of this sort to gauge oneself by as a guide; and also for the language coordinators to be able to better organize their teams. That's all. :)

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Tuesday, September 17th 2013, 3:01pm

I see only valuable input here. All points of view shared thus far (the mentioned pros and cons) seem valid, at least to me. So in order to see if there is any benefit to be gained from this suggestion, why not test the idea and see how it goes? If it doesn't serve a useful purpose (or is harmful for some reason), we can ditch it anytime. Testing seems the only way we can know. :) And in this case implementing it probably doesn't require much effort, so why not? Let me know if you agree with this logic.

I'm still thinking that the best place for this info is in the Portal profiles, where all of the other info about people is. This way we'll have everything in one place, not just an isolated grade level.

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Tuesday, September 17th 2013, 5:49pm

Thank you guys!

I'm going to talk to Ray and evaluate how much effort we need to do that.

Keep rocking!

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