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  • "AndersO" is male
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Sunday, April 8th 2012, 10:38pm

OnePlanetProject - will LTI provide translations?

Hi. We were discussing
http://oneplanetproject.net/ in our regional meeting tonight, and there might be a need for some translation to the local languages.

I'm not sure how much material will need translation, since all material has not yet been released on http://oneplanetproject.net/index.php?op…e&id=2&Itemid=2. All there is right now are some PDFs with quiz questions and answers.

Do we have any plans for this?

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Monday, April 9th 2012, 1:42am

What a nice project, Anders! :smiley: I wish I had a group here that would like to do the same. So cool to go on the streets and talk to people spreading awareness!!

I have no idea if we can include this project in the list of works. But it seems tat it is directed to activism and supporters of the Zeitgeist Movement; that means, those who already know about it. I think we still have lots of contents waiting to be translated that are directed to introducing the concepts to those who don't know about a RBE yet. Anyway, bring this up in the next meeting and share it here instead, it is my suggestion ;)
http://forum.linguisticteam.org/board217…ation-requests/

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Monday, April 9th 2012, 10:55am

Anders, you can contact the site admins via the contact form to ask them how to send the translations. Apparently the site has already been translated in Spanish.

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Tuesday, April 10th 2012, 11:02pm

Aha. I thought it was a TZM project, and that it would automagically be added to our translation projects. :)

I emailed them my questions. Will post the response here as soon as I get it.

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Saturday, April 14th 2012, 8:34pm

Well, I have asked access and translated the website into spanish, I can add more languages as well, since it's not THAT big I think you can 'be in charge' of translating it into swedish (right?). You can contact me here

Apparently when something is only for TZM members is not important anymore, even when its message could be carried out to the entire population.


Really!?

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Sunday, April 15th 2012, 1:00pm

May I ask you something? Why have you translated the website into Spanish all by yourself? Why didn't you use tools that would let others participate in the translation, and then have others to proofread it (also known as 'working in teams'? What good does it do if you translate it into one language only, without having a coordinated translation effort across many languages? Is this the way - to work silently?

About your concern - if you look closer at Nomada's post, you will see that he is making a presumption that is actually incorrect (due to lack of information). His presumption is "that it is directed to activism and supporters of the Zeitgeist Movement; that means, those who already know about it." But in reality, the project is directed to new people who haven't heard of the ideas. The new information calls for new conclusions. If you also see the end, he is suggesting that this be brought up to the next meeting, to allow discussion on it, and to allow all available information to be presented, which would make it possible to make better conclusions as to our involvement, translation-wise.

So, let's not be too quick to judge. :)

We are actually in the process of seeking contact with the creators of the project. It is very strange that they haven't contacted the lingteam, since such a world-wide effort is heavily dependent on translations. Nevertheless, I myself am quite willing to get involved in it, both with translations and on street, as this might bring some very good results.

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Tuesday, April 17th 2012, 2:35am

May I ask you something?
Of course you can ask ¬¬

Quoted

Why have you translated the website into Spanish all by yourself?
I have translated the website by myself 'cause I could and it will help spanish speaker people to be part of this project (and also I was learning how to use joomfish :P).

Quoted

Why didn't you use tools that would let others participate in the translation, and then have others to proofread it (also known as 'working in teams'?

I didn't use the tools that would let others participate because it will take so long to do so as time has proven, besides a translation can be made and the site updated if the team works on it. Sadly right now I don't have time for team work (as made in the LTI where at least 3 members must join at the same time to proofread).

Quoted

What good does it do if you translate it into one language only, without having a coordinated translation effort across many languages? Is this the way - to work silently?

Obviously it has a great good for those who don't speak English and do speak Spanish. Besides that doesn't imply that the site is closed for translations to other languages,

Side note: Actually this began 'cause the french team contacted us (using the global facebook fan page) and I resend this requirement to the site, then I was added as administrator (It was quick since I was already known by the website owner because I also translated zeitgeistfestival.com). I tested the system with Spanish and then sent an email to the French Coordination Team (they are proofreading the text).

Quoted

let's not be too quick to judge.
Please!

Quoted

We are actually in the process of seeking contact with the creators of the project.
Well Cliff from UK is the creator but now I can handle the website as well.

Quoted

It is very strange that they haven't contacted the lingteam, since such a world-wide effort is heavily dependent on translations.
I don't wanna be negative here (and I have to say this :P) but in this regard we should acknowledge that a lack of team work is also present here. LTI has taken its own direction -not a bad one- in order to keep some specific goals, however our FAQs haven't been translated yet and they were pretty important for the movement, I can't talk in behalf of others but maybe this issue needs to be addresed.

Thanks for your sincere answer :)

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Tuesday, April 17th 2012, 7:06am

What do you propose to make this team better?

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Tuesday, April 17th 2012, 9:04pm

I like TED talks system and I strongly suggest to move into something similar.
Proofreading could be done faster by one single member and if some mistake is found, feedback will tell and it could be corrected.

'

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Wednesday, April 18th 2012, 5:22pm

Yeah, I guess I misinterpreted the project. I am all for it either way, as long as we have resources for it.

Come to the next meeting and share your suggestion Andrés. It is the best place to present it and have feedback from everyone.

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Wednesday, April 18th 2012, 7:10pm

Yeah, I'd also suggest to bring up this on the next meeting. From your post I can tell that we will be able to quickly clear up some misconceptions (like the questions about the FAQ and the proofreading).

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Tuesday, May 1st 2012, 12:18am

Hey Guys, sorry for taking so long to answer... I just read my (now) old post and it could seem I was angry at some moment,sorry about that too...

Sadly I can't be at the meeting most of the time, now I handle a lot of stuff regarding the movement and I have very limited time to do 'extra' stuff, I try to be in touch with some key people that could keep me informed, it's not the best but I can't afford anything different right now.

I'm familiar with the proofreading process lizardman and also how we select the work within the team. However it could have changed and I'd really appreciate a new explanation here or at my personal email: jordel 77 at hotmail dot com.

I know that right now Ray is asking about the LTI translating the site, please let him know it's working with Joomfish and if you guys (as a team :P) need access I could make it easy for you :).

Side Note: I have talked with Jorge Forero yesterday about the LTI and I was pretty happy to hear about some ongoing changes. I hope talk to you soon, I already have nomada on skype, it would be nice to have the rest of you so we can chat sometime.

Warm Regards,

Andrés

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Tuesday, May 1st 2012, 4:16am

Thank you for your concern, Andrés, for all these issues and to make such a big effort for all of this :loveya:

About the importance given to the proofreading moments and that these should be multiple and done by different individuals in each proofreading phase - towards achieving the accuracy of the meaning in the message - there are 2 main factors that can explain how we (all those who were in those meetings; I caught a few) arrived at these decisions:
a) The importance and difficulty level of the message
b) The hypothesis verified, repetitively and still today after years of experience by the translators, that in such meticulous task, always details will escape to some of us and be found by the next volunteers that go through the proofreading phases. Mistakes which, despite that as small as one can imagine in written, can represent huge differences in meaning. These examples of typos are as common as many videos one translates/proofreads and as more careful one is into finding them. The consequences can also be measured. I just finished translating a video to Portuguese and adding 3 rounds of proofreading to it, 2 of them individually by 2 persons and the last proofreading done by the same 2 persons but in group on Team Speak. After we finished we saw the video on Youtube 3 times and in each time we found 1 typo.The last typo changed the meaning of that chunk of content from identifying the actor as being altruistic to seeing him as selfish. And the word that was wrong and caused the difference was actually said WRONG by the speaker in the video; and the meaning in English, with his face expressions and all, was clearly perceived as altruistic, in it's whole, by us, because we know the speaker and the content relatively well and our brains made it all automatically to perceive what he WANTED to say - and despite that he had mistaken. But when written, and in another language, it would gain the meaning of the actor as being selfish. We verified this perception by a 3rd person who doesn't know the movement and this was her first time watching such contents. She perceived the actor as being selfish too.
We had to correct the speaker in his own words or else an RBE wouldn't be a concept understood and appreciated by the viewers. And they only need one chance to refuse the message, start filtering it and never become interested in it again. Let alone spend effort into spreading it. And all this because of one word. A "your" instead of a "their".
Other times is, for example in the same video, a sentence started in the conditional verb form (if this then that), changed in the middle of the sentence by the speaker itself (mistaken in his speech) to the verb in the present form. And then it is up to us to hear the last 2 or 3 paragraphs again and correct, according to OUR UNDERSTANDING of what he means, the verbal form/time as we think is best.
Now, how many languages are synchronized in these actions? Are we giving the same meaning to our viewers in different places of the world? We do want a Global awareness here. What do we have in common? What is our common ground? The message in English!! Let's make that one as accurate as possible. And after that, why aren't we taking our time to translate this slowly, with research involved, constantly exchanging in the forum and facebook what we understood of this and that paragraph in minute X and Y of the PJ's lecture that has such a hard to understand content that in the Portuguese facebooks very litle amount of people comment on them (they comment on everything else but those PJ lectures, even after translated, they don't because they don't get the message entirely and are afraid of passing by ignorant). How are we going to change the world if these are our activists? What can we do to help them? A big part of it is in our hands. We are the Linguistic Team, after all. We translate the message so it can be absorbed by their neuronal connections, which are wired in a different language. Doesn't it sound hard already? That is why we need several heads, and time (no rush), for them to do these tasks.

This long speech at 5:00am has to come to one conclusion : ) Let it be what's most present on my mind: I am loving doing this. Is the most beautiful challenge I could ever find. And the fact that my family and friends don't recognize it and are becoming further away from me (or the opposite direction), is passing from provoking that initial pain to a caring thought shared from me to all human beings in their situation: "Too bad. They're not ready yet to help on making a Global RBE" I am glad we are Andrés, Bruno and Lizardman. Nice to have you around! :kiss: ...pfff!... GET YOUR ASS OUT OF THERE, BRUNO!!!
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Tuesday, May 1st 2012, 4:44am

Thank you Rodrigo for your words,

But I do share the same concern...

If we want to spread the word out there and make it comprehensible to the people we should also take into account the nature of the network itself. As most of you could have noticed, once a translation is published, whoever makes it, even when it has some mistakes on it, THAT translation is copied/pasted and embedded everywhere. I can give you hundreds of examples of it. Most of PJ's talks haven't been published yet by the Spanish LT (I talk specifically about this 'cause that's my native language), and I heard they are gonna be ready soon, after two years or so. And I'm pretty sure I'll replace the subs I have in one of my videos but the others use hardsubs and I won't change them, cause they had been embedded in a lot of sites and a lot of links point to them.

Let's get real, it's not only a matter of accuracy and quality but speed as well. If we ignore the nature of the network and how information is spread, then we are not really applying the science of communication as a whole.

I'd suggest two things as I have explained:

1- A sub distribution 'program': not a program really but only a mailing list where we can provide subtitles to interested channels so they can upload/update in their videos. A brief text added in the description could help to spread the word about the LTI.
2- A change in proofreading: Even when I do agree with you regarding the constant need for review, I disagree with who should make that. Community can do it. TED talks are a great example of it. The other day I found a HUGE mistake on those translations. So I clicked on 'email to the translators', and then it was corrected.

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Tuesday, May 1st 2012, 6:43pm

Thank you for your feedback and suggestions, Andres. I agree with you that speed is also a factor to be taken into account, and your suggestion of crowdsourcing the proofreadings is a very relevant one considering the time we are in. Actually, it would be completely illogical not to use this opportunity. I believe any language team would like to receive input about mistakes in their translations.

However, all of this is dependent upon centralization. We need one place where all the people will come to visit for getting information and will input their corrections to. That place is supposed to be the site we are developing now, but it is still in early stages of development. So until then, what opportunities do we have for experimenting with this approach? I think the biggest centralization we have right now is the TZM Official youtube channel. Could we use it for such purposes? We certainly don't want to hijack it for translation-centered stuff, but maybe a line or two in the description about where to report translation mistakes? It is a half-solution, yet the best I can think of that could be applied immediately, in order to test the approach's validity.

Please tell me in I have understood your suggestion correctly and if my thoughts make sense. :)

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