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[dotSUB Typo] Zeitgeist: the movie

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Wednesday, November 14th 2012, 1:27am

Zeitgeist: the movie

Hey Gang! Yoohoo! Over here. How'd I get over here in Z1?? And it's been locked down for almost a year. So why am I here?

Well, lemme tellya. I happened to catch the opening of this vid + srt recently and was a bit surprised by what I saw. Due no doubt to Chögyam Trungpa's thick accent, some key points of his opening soliloquy are mis-stated. Let's start with this trio of lines:

6
00:00:34,165 --> 00:00:37,725
A certain act is regarded as
7
00:00:38,238 --> 00:00:42,150
displeasing to our divine principles.
8
00:00:42,623 --> 00:00:47,811
A certain act is regarded as pleasing for the divine whatever.

In line 8 he does not say pleasing. He is repeating, or reiterating, the word displeasing for impact, thus corrected:

6
00:00:34,165 --> 00:00:37,725
A certain act is regarded as
7
00:00:38,238 --> 00:00:42,150
displeasing to our divine principles.
8
00:00:42,623 --> 00:00:47,811
A certain act is regarded as displeasing for the divine whatever.



The next tweak is here:

24
00:01:53,453 --> 00:01:58,520
We actually experience fantastic precision, always.

Now I agree it sure sounds like he says "precision" and that is a good strong word, but to me it seems out of place because it is vague. Precise what? or with respect to what? to some implied imprecision in the past? Again it seems strange to me. That said, from day 1 I always thought he said the word procession, strained within his accent of course. Thus:

24
00:01:53,453 --> 00:01:58,520
We actually experience fantastic procession, always.

NOW this line makes much more sense and has much more impact. Trungpa's meaning is that by living in the now moment we proceed or move forward (gee- where have I heard that phrase before) at an accelerated rate!



Now the next change is the BIG one, and again needs extra lines around it for establishing its context:

30
00:02:24,031 --> 00:02:27,698
Everything we experience are unconditional experience.
31
00:02:27,838 --> 00:02:30,373
They don't come along with a label by saying
32
00:02:30,513 --> 00:02:34,085
"This is regarded as bad" or "This is good".

Sorry but I think line 31 is a flat out mis-transcription of the words actually spoken; here is the correction:

30
00:02:24,031 --> 00:02:27,698
Everything we experience are unconditional experience.
31
00:02:27,838 --> 00:02:30,373
The dirt comes along with the label by saying
32
00:02:30,513 --> 00:02:34,085
"This is regarded as bad" or "This is good".

Again, with this correction the lines pop out with perfect clarity. I remember first watching Z1 years ago and straining to grasp these words initially, but once it clicked my mind, that's the way I have registered this line ever since.



Finally there is this closing tweak:

38
00:03:03,951 --> 00:03:09,352
That's a problem. And that is not trusting the nowness properly

Yes it can stand this way, but I think he says "That's d'problem" ie, that's the problem, thus:

38
00:03:03,951 --> 00:03:09,352
That's the problem. And that is not trusting the nowness properly

By doing this, this line is raised to its proper stature in Trungpa's speech, which is that it is the main point, not just another point (as when a is used).

Now that I've bored you to tears with my analysis, I'll stop and invite you to simply look at the attached small diff file, with the 4 changes above side by side. Listen to the opening again and see if you don't agree. Trungpa's opening is the only thing I focused on, the rest of the SRT is undisturbed.

I feel strongly about this because- love it or hate it (personally I love it)- this film is where it all began with Peter and all of us, and so it goes without saying the accuracy of this opening is critically important. And someday it may be translated into 100+ languages not just 2 or 3, so best to fix this now and not later. I welcome any feedback.
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This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "brunodc" (Nov 14th 2012, 4:55am) with the following reason: copied post from the open for translation forum


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Thursday, November 15th 2012, 3:40am

Thanks MrB! How come you found that? decided to show the movie to friends and ended up proofreading? :D

I'll apply the changes tomorrow, when I'll be less sleepy. We should be well awake when editing the Repository hehe.

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Sunday, March 31st 2013, 2:24am

OK so what's the dispo on this guy?
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Thursday, April 18th 2013, 5:39pm

It seems to me that we better hold off on this one until more people weigh in. While I tend to agree with some of Mr_B's suggestions, it is obvious that this is a difficult one and some deeper investigation and knowledge of Chögyam Trungpa himself would be needed. We can actually harm the translations if we don't have something solid on which to base the decisions made in the transcription.

At least that's my view. What do you think?

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Thursday, May 2nd 2013, 7:53pm

Weighing in

I feel strongly about this because- love it or hate it (personally I love it)- this film is where it all began with Peter and all of us, and so it goes without saying the accuracy of this opening is critically important. And someday it may be translated into 100+ languages not just 2 or 3, so best to fix this now and not later. I welcome any feedback.


I have just tried an experiment never before attempted (by me...lol). I listened to the clip and followed Mr. B's srt file along the way.

Here's what I think:
In some instances, I agree. And in others, I disagree.

Let's take them one at a time:
6
00:00:34,165 --> 00:00:37,725
A certain act is regarded as
7
00:00:38,238 --> 00:00:42,150
displeasing to our divine principles.
8
00:00:42,623 --> 00:00:47,811
A certain act is regarded as pleasing for the divine whatever.

In line 8 he does not say pleasing. He is repeating, or reiterating, the word displeasing for impact, thus corrected:

6
00:00:34,165 --> 00:00:37,725
A certain act is regarded as
7
00:00:38,238 --> 00:00:42,150
displeasing to our divine principles.
8
00:00:42,623 --> 00:00:47,811
A certain act is regarded as displeasing for the divine whatever.



This fits the context and I can hear that he has probably repeated himself, so I would agree with this change unless someone can show this change is out of context or changes the meaning. I don't believe it does either.

24
00:01:53,453 --> 00:01:58,520
We actually experience fantastic precision, always.

Now I agree it sure sounds like he says "precision" and that is a good strong word, but to me it seems out of place because it is vague. Precise what? or with respect to what? to some implied imprecision in the past? Again it seems strange to me. That said, from day 1 I always thought he said the word procession, strained within his accent of course. Thus:

24
00:01:53,453 --> 00:01:58,520
We actually experience fantastic procession, always.


I clearly say him say, 'precision', just as you do Mr. B. And... it does make sense to me. This is because the 'precision' (not procession) refers to 'being precisely in the moment'. I hear him say 'precision' and it makes perfect sense that he means 'precision'. Look at the whole passage to see what I mean:

And from that nowness, however
arises a sense of intelligence, always
that you are constantly interacting with
reality one by one, spot by spot, constantly.
We actually experience fantastic
precision (being in the nowness or the moment), always.

And for the biggie, I can't go along with 'the dirt' option. Oh, geez... sorry, Mr. B, but I clearly hear 'they don't'. Here's my reasoning:

Everything we experience are
unconditional experience.
They (the unconditional experiences) don't come along with a label by
saying "This is regarded as bad" or "This is
good".

If we choose 'dirt' it automatically implies 'bad', right? I don't think that fits.

So, bottom line: I agree with the first change, but not the 2nd or 3rd. And one last thing: I really love this film too!

Hope this weigh-in helps. I would also agree that we need lots of weigh-ins, in order to figure out the best path to follow.

((BIG hugs)) from me,
Di
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Wednesday, September 10th 2014, 11:36pm

So here I am finishing up my own thread, almost 2 years later LOL!!

So re: the "dirt" vs. "don't" debate, I checked with the man himself--Peter--and he squarely came down on the original side and not my interpretation. He said: Trungpa was never that abstract to use symbols like "dirt" in such a context. So I stand corrected.

And 2nd item, 'procession' vs 'precision', is--in the end--splitting hairs. 'Precision' is good enough as is, I'm over it.

So that leaves a single small change we all agree upon:

00:00:42,623 --> 00:00:47,811
FROM
A certain act is regarded as pleasing for the divine whatever.

TO
A certain act is regarded as displeasing for the divine whatever.



This change can be done by hand, so I will not even bother attaching a changed SRT file.
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Thursday, September 11th 2014, 7:27pm

OK, the change has been applied to both WL and RL.

Languages that have translations as of the time of this revision of the English transcription:
In the Working Location ( http://dotsub.com/view/719b1e31-08c2-4148-96de-9297d3539465 ): Albanian[75%] , Czech[1%] , Dutch[100%] , English[100%] , Esperanto[5%] , French (France)[100%] , German[9%] , Persian (Farsi)[6%] , Portuguese (Brazil)[29%] , Spanish[65%]

In the Repository Location ( http://dotsub.com/view/7f5662da-9eaf-467c-80bf-16fec084c05f ): English[100%] , French (France)[100%]

These languages would need to check their translations to see if they correspond to the revised English original. If changes in the translation are required, then simply apply them in the WL. If your language is in the Repository, you would need to also make a ToDo, so that the translation in the Repository can be replaced with the one in the WL. (Note: these detailed instructions may become outdated in the future. Post in this thread if you are unsure what to do to get your revised translation in the 'official' channels.)

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