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Wednesday, May 1st 2013, 3:17pm

What is The Venus Project? · TVPA Israel

Hi,

Brief introduction to The Venus Project concept.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mX6Y0D8WACA

Whereas approving. Initial translations on: http://www.amara.org/es/videos/OzW2WoECc…-venus-project/

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "ioloo" (May 29th 2013, 7:51pm)


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Thursday, May 2nd 2013, 11:37pm

Thank you for sharing that suggestion Ioloo. The fever to start translating in Amara is not really helping, but your motivation doesn't stop being inspiring for that reason :D I will explain how it doesn't help:
- There is a big concern in doing the translations all based on a common and carefully proofread English transcript. We know by experience that typos, misunderstandings and different meaning translations occur if we don't do so. And in order to proofread the translations that were based on another English transcript will increase the work load on the proofreaders but also the timeshifters in order to synchronize and structure the strings in different locations. And even that we (and you on the facebook post sharing this project) call that "the LTI", it is no more than volunteers with offline lives with money, job, family and other issues, willing to do better out of this everyday - so I guess that includes you ^^ .

So there is a big concern in trying to make this as efficient as possible, just like in an RBE - centralized abundant information and strategic access with the scientific method calling the shots :D .
There is a worry in putting out there the best quality transcripts and translations possible, knowing that this information is already hard to understand and if it comes with typpos, not so clear meaning, difficulty to read the strings with comfort in speed and size, etc, those are all factors that can make someone that listens to this for the 1st time to stop watching and not be interested in the topic any more; and, of course, he/she will spread rather a negative impression on the topics with their friends. So, we loose more in the long term in doing things in a rushed way.

The use of dotsub has several advantages:
- we can protect the hard work of the volunteers from being altered, when the translations are completed or still during proofreading, using the server of dotsub for that;
- Dotsub offered access to the back end making many features that are very useful available to us, (used by the volunteers in the admin group when managing and giving support to all the working locations and repository locations so that all volunteers that come to help have their participation as facilitated as possible) We can find volunteers who worked on projects and never got to know of the existence of the forum and all the support structures or that there is a language team that they can join.
There are more features, but Ray, who is more tekkie on these things, can explain better :D Some of them I think are elated with compatibility of coding or stuff like that, so we can integrate stuff in the LTI Portal that Rayy is building - another effort with the goal of making all of this collaboration much easier and efficient.

I am getting short on words for what I had previewed I would write here but I am really tired. Sorry. There are lots of stuff happening, all together in the English Team, Portuguese Team, Admin Group, PR Group, Timeshifting, etc, and I wanna help a couple of volunteers in the forum before going to bed, so please feel free to share your thoughts on this or ask anything you have in mind and I'll answer tomorrow :eyeroll:

Have fun there!
hugs :bighug:
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Friday, May 3rd 2013, 9:27am

Oh Sorry nomada,

My intention with use of amara is another different than use it as LTI translation tool. I'm sorry if you lose time thinking this is my goal.

I want the volunteers introduce this vídeo on Dotsub and do the transcription, do a good timeshift, and a good proofreading in English.

I only use amara as translation tool to local language, when working location be in order, I'll use .srt translation or copy texts from amara to the working location on dotsub. If some text are different I'll change it. I think it is useful, work in parallel tasks if it is possible.

Nobody wants proofreaders work more than possible, only I want to work all I can, independently of the number and time of proofreaders.

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Friday, May 3rd 2013, 10:52am

Hi Ioloo! I am grateful that you considered all I wrote here. Thank you!! :bighug:

I know what your goal is. A global RBE, where mankind can prosper in collaboration to satisfy human needs for everyone in the planet! :loveya: right? :giggle: And that is why you are making all those wonderful efforts. Don't stop!!

I am afraid you will have extra work passing those translations to dotsub through copy-paste. If we import the Working Location timings to those SRTs from Amara and then import them, we might loose some strings but it might be worth it as it is faster. But we can see that later. We will work it out in the most efficient way ;)

One thing we could focus upon is to make the completed (proofread) translations reach all the original channels that have many more thousands of views and so a good place in the search engines. For example we are placing the translations in the thevenusprojectmedia and JacqueFresco channels but there is no one sending the subs to TVPActivism channels and other locations. There is such a huge list of projects in the repository and with several traslations in them, that this needs extra people to help with and to be carefully organized. Just a thought that pass through my mind now hehe. What a place to put this!! I wonder if anyone will read this? :giggle: Maybe I'll share it in one of the biweekly meetings.

Ok man. Take care ^^ hugs!
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Sunday, May 5th 2013, 5:11pm

Thanks Nomada,

I consider we need to put the videos only in LTI youtube cannels, international, spanish, french, russian,... at time this videos enter into dotsub repository. I don't know how many language channels are.

And the tvpm or TVPA channel Admins must be direct youtube subscripted with their language channels and internationals. They must be administrate the LTI videos they consider adding to their own channel - including them on a list or upload a copy. It's just like now, but they need a communication indicate them this procedure. But this is a TVP issue, not LTI.


Please, Can you help me with this video to start LTI translations before a year forward?
I mean I know the Occupy Miami Fresco lecture vídeo was suggested since 2011 and it isn't in translation teams, whereas Culture in Decline ep. 5 is in transcription instantaneously. This system of priorities is confusing me.

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Wednesday, May 8th 2013, 11:38am

Hi,

I upload the spanish SRT informal translation. I hope it will be useful for future LTI translations if this video or a version of it is LTI accepted.
ioloo has attached the following file:

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Wednesday, May 8th 2013, 7:50pm

Hi ioloo,

What we are trying to do currently is to move away from our personal opinions about what we take for translation and what we don't (since we have limited resources). Currently everybody wants to have included for translation what he/she proposes. That is not a good method, it seems to me. So someone has to work out a different system. And guess who the responsibility for developing this falls on? It's not on the people who want to see translated something that they like, it's on the people who manage all the systems. Because they are the ones who get blamed when someone's needs don't get met.

What the majority of people seem to like is 'the latest hype'. But is that important? What is important? It's very hard to tell. Very few people think in terms of 'how do we choose the stuff that contains the most valuable information for the world?'. For every video that you point to, there are many others that are similar to it. How do you choose the best between them? Most people say: "This is what I want/like". And this doesn't help to bring us in a more rational direction.

Although I do understand and appreciate the enthusiasm, it seems to me we have to start thinking a bit more long-term. In contrast to "this is what I want now". I'm talking about the community overall, not specifically about you. Anyway, these are my thoughts. :)

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Wednesday, May 8th 2013, 8:41pm

I think it is a good position. I thougth quickly a english short TVP Team video would be automatic in the LTI system. I'm sorry for my enthusiasm in requiring this video translation into the LTI system.

I think the amara use is valid for informal (no LTI) traslation in this case, in order to help future LTI translations for this video, or another version of it. What are the reasons that help me understand not to put amara link is a good decision?

What terms made Culture in Decline series could be automatic in LTI system?
I want use those for another TVP publications, like sunday sessions or similar.

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Friday, May 10th 2013, 10:47pm

What I tried to say is that we are trying to move away from "I think". Less making of decisions, more arriving at them. For this to happen, we need to develop a system that allows for an analysis of a material, to try to gauge how relevant it is to our overall goals. Maybe you missed this point and still continue to think about how good you personally feel something is. And something being short doesn't make it automatically eligible - there are hundreds of short TVP videos out there.

All of the above doesn't mean that this video is not good or worthy, or that it won't be taken in for translation. It just means that we can't continue to rely on the opinion system.

Your comment about being sorry for your enthusiasm is making me wonder if I am expressing properly what I want to express. I think we need more enthusiasm in this community, not less... If my comments are making you feel sorry about your enthusiasm, then they are producing the opposite effect of what is intended.

"What are the reasons that help me understand not to put amara link is a good decision?"

Thank you for asking such a question. It shows that you are interested in what is best for the community, not (only) for yourself. My thoughts here are that if we work on English subtitles that haven't been thoroughly proofread and timeshifted, then our translation is going to suffer from that. If we share that translation to people, the educational effect is going to be diminished, or even reversed if the quality is quite low. So that is one reason. Another reason is that the proofreading of materials is holding things back because it is slow; and it is so slow because (I imagine it is the same for more or less all languages) there can be done a lot to improve the quality of the translation. So the worse the translation is, the slower the proofreading. With translation based on poor English transcript, there are probably going to be a lot of mishearings and so on, and all of that means more work for the proofreading stage. Mishearings are especially tricky because they are difficult to notice even if you proofread against the improved English transcript.

So, those are reasons that you might want to consider. There is no right or wrong decision. It's just that we have common goals and we want to work as a team towards them. And the actions that we take lead to certain outcomes. The task is to recognize what those outcomes are.

About Culture in Decline: the system I mentioned, that allows for more arriving at decisions, is not developed yet (and now with the Portal and PMS being prepared, there isn't time to work also on that). So 'arriving at decisions' can't really be applied. But there is huge demand for bringing this in for translation (big pressure). What can be done in this case? Have a suggestion? Suggestions are always helpful. :) They have the potential to help improve the system.

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Monday, May 20th 2013, 12:12pm

It is very difficult to me speak with you when you think "I think" is personal interest and "my toughts" are team interest.

I try to say this video is very useful as a quick response to help understand what the Venus Project is. Many times people looking for quick response. So This make my toughts are in hope this video be accepted as soon as possible.

Culture in Decline Ep.5 was accepted without a request like this. So, what are the terms that made CiD5 accepted without request?
I need this terms to try apply to another kind of videos. That is my suggestion!

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Monday, May 20th 2013, 10:07pm

Sorry, I did not understand your suggestion. :)

It seems like the only thing you are focused on is including this particular video in the system. If that is the case, then I wouldn't be too worried about it as the video seems very relevant and containing good information (an analysis would show that better than my opinion that I'm giving here).

About Culture in Decline, I really don't know what else to say than what I already said. You are right, I don't think there has been a thread requesting episode five to be translated, however if you go and look at the activity on these series, you'll see that there is a lot of it. Lack of thread doesn't mean that there is no request.

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Monday, May 20th 2013, 10:50pm

It seems that this video is still for correction of the text on screen, for a second time, I think. Don't know the details on that though.

Maybe you can suggest a method to arrive at which videos to add to the voluntary works, Ioloo? Maybe on a google doc so several of us can edit it?

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Tuesday, May 21st 2013, 2:44pm

The main of this post is only request this video to LTI Translation.

I understand the LTI process. Now, you say this vídeo won't be the final version because it will be changed. Whereas this video is being publising by official channels. Comunication problem with POCs and Social Media coordinators, I know. That's ok. I'll wait a year to star the LTI translation, no problem. So I started a proto-translation on amara for people who wants use it now no worried about the Q problems; like TVPEducation or TVP twitter & facebook SMOs.


Talking about it, I asked what are the methods to achieve an automatic LTI translation approve. I don't worried about CiD Ep.5 It seems to me well it was automatically approved. What I want to know is a method that uses it to do the same with another series and seminars.

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Saturday, May 25th 2013, 10:43am

This video has been removed by the user !

This is the message that I received when I tried to open http://youtu.be/tow14zaP0Fc

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Wednesday, May 29th 2013, 7:50pm

Now It is on TVP Education
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mX6Y0D8WACA

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