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Saturday, November 3rd 2012, 4:42pm

Looking Forward - translation questions

Hi. :)

I'm having problems with the word 'defy' in this context. Could someone reformulate the sentence? (it's at page 13 of the book)

[War is] a wasting of strength that defies the American system or the Soviet system or any system to achieve true abundance and happiness for the peoples of this earth . . .


Thank you. :)

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Sunday, November 4th 2012, 5:49pm

Hi there,

[War is] a wasting of strength that CHALLENGE the American system or the Soviet system or any system to achieve true abundance and happiness for the peoples of this earth . . .


Does this help you?

just keep up :thumbsup:

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Sunday, November 4th 2012, 6:30pm

Hi Nelia,

Thanks for the reply. :smiley:

I'm having trouble to understand the logic behind this. How can the wasting of that strength challenge (or provoke) them to achieve abundance and happiness for all?

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Sunday, November 4th 2012, 11:27pm

I suspect your understanding is opposite of Jacque's intended meaning Squire Lizardman. :)

I back Netia's substitute of the word Challenge or more accurately challenges for defines, but I don't think that is your issue. Jacque left unspoken his implied premise that we all know war is "bad", which goes counter to the US, USSR, etc govt's empty claims that war is *good*, for achieving abundance and happiness. inserting this clarity into the sentence:

[War is] a wasting of strength that defies (or challenges) the American system or the Soviet system or any system ['s claim that war is the best way] to achieve true abundance and happiness for the peoples of this earth.

or expressed in a simpler, shortened way:
War is a waste that challenges anyone's belief system that it is beneficial.


I hope expounding a little on this helps solidify your understanding. I will leave it to you to figure out the best actual words to use for your language.
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Monday, November 5th 2012, 12:01am

[War is] a wasting of strength that defies the American system or the Soviet system or any system to achieve true abundance and happiness for the peoples of this earth . . .


Lizzie,
I agree with Nelia and Mr. B, who have made good explanations here. I would also add that one definition of 'defies' is 'to make an action or thing impossible'. Maybe it would be helpful to rephrase it this way: "[War is} a wasting of strength that makes it impossible to achieve true abundance and happiness for the peoples of this earth, in the American system or the Soviet system or any system."

((hugs)) :bighug:
Di
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Monday, November 5th 2012, 12:06am

Challenges or dares them...It's kind of hard to describe the logic behind the sentence, although it makes sense in English. To defy is to stand against, challenge or dare someone or something; there is an element of defiance (hence, defy) in the position of the subject (person or object doing the defying, in this case War), which due to it's nature is ruining and destroying prosperity for all peoples. Our systems of government, regardless of which system or where, in theory, are supposed to support and enhance the lives of the people that live within them. So the existence of war by it's very nature defies (stands or moves against) prosperity, since prosperity, happiness and abundance are in the best interest of all peoples. In one way or another we are all affected by war, (obviously to a much more extreme degree when the war is physically upon you or in your region) but War disrupts, which is the opposite of harmony, which helps.The power of war is in it's waste, in it's destruction, not in it's Creation which would benefit people.. It's strength lies in its power to destroy. And that destruction, landing on and shattering the lives of people, the waste that it creates, must necessarily have a motivating affect by virtue of its impact. Does that make some sense to you?

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Monday, November 5th 2012, 8:59pm

Hi guys,

You're great! It's really cool to see you in this forum section, offering your language competence. Thanks. :)

One thing I really forgot to mention is that those words are Dwight Eisenhower's , quoted in Looking Forward. But Di Anna's suggestion of rephrasing would fit ideally into our translation. :party:

Lots of hugs!

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Monday, November 5th 2012, 9:38pm

General Eisenhowser? Wow...I never knew what a smart man he was!
Thanks, Lizzie!
Love ya,
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Tuesday, November 6th 2012, 7:51pm

Glad some others were around! ...I thought of it as "[War is] a wasted strength" ... rather than "a wasting of strength"; I either misread it or was very tired!...Some proofer I am! Lol!! :)...Anyway, glad you got what you needed. Di Anna was definitely 'spot-on'.:)

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "ralle4" (Nov 8th 2012, 12:11pm)


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Tuesday, November 6th 2012, 11:38pm

Okaay, here's another one, on page 18.

"It is my contention that women in the United States have been victims of both prejudice and discrimination. . . If she has a sprinkling of Harlowian traits, her male colleagues are flirtatious. If she looks like a benevolent moose, they are merciless and their appraisal of her appearance takes precedence over what she has to say."

Benevolent moose? What do you think this means? I read some definitions on Urban Dictionary, but... it appears 'moose' is used both for an attractive lady and a not so attractive one (by which culture's standarts?, geez...). And benevolent? Is it just used to exaggerate whatever meaning 'moose' has here?

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Wednesday, November 7th 2012, 9:41am

In this context, it very much means someone who who does not fit in well with the status quo 'attractiveness' standards of the culture.
So this statement is insinuating that if a woman is generally seen as unattractive, her male colleagues will not take her words (or her mind) seriously.

The use of the out-of-place term 'benevolent' appears to define the woman as 'well-meaning' to me, but it could also be an intentional twisting of the term's normal usage; similar to calling someone's humor "horrifically awesome" or someone's social influence "massively miniscule".

It's a great example of the negative psychological effects of this current cultural approach. We can't transition into a full global RBE fast enough for me (although I also understand the very real need for more time to reach many more people with this information)!
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Thursday, November 8th 2012, 7:47pm

Hi there, i also try to find a meaning to that expression, and all i can say is that i agree with Ray, in the way that moose is used to give a certain critic bad label to someone.

But my first thought was, moose may not be the word, as i read it look like certain kind of slang word for moslim loool... i don´t know why i read it like that...maybe because of the word behind that one, benevolent... Any way, i hope all the aswers may help you.

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Friday, November 9th 2012, 3:22am

I agree with Ray but would add only that I think "benevolent moose'' might describe a 'saintly' yet unattractive woman, according to the man making the claim. He is also assuming that other men would share his view so it is a stereotype of some sort. Honestly sounds like an 'old codger's' description of a woman he would estimate as lacking in feminine delicacy or grace, possibly very large boned, masculine appearing or clumsy, according to the man making the assessment.

She might be a lovely human being, very giving, but her male coworkers' insensitive, cruel, judgmental assessment of her physical appearance prevents them from hearing what she has to say and from valuing her.

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Tuesday, November 13th 2012, 8:47pm

Thanks, fellas. Your input was really helpful. :smiley:

Now again I encounter something that I'm not sure how to understand. All those dictionaries, and yet the usage of words often remains unclear. :(

Page 31: If you think that today's vices and virtues are absolute and ultimate and reflect the final value system for all times and all civilizations, you will find our projection of the future to be shocking and incredible. If you have an absolute attitude toward values, all you can do is to project your particular conditioning onto mankind's dynamically evolving future. You will tend to see the future in terms of the present with, of course, some of the burrs removed. If you want even the slightest chance of understanding where we are going—and possibly helping us get there—shake out the absolutes and put in the relatives. A culture must be seen relative to time, relative to place, and relative to a particular framework of values, thinking methodology, and technology.

The boldened sentence, what do you think the word "burr" refers to? My best bet is that they are talking about the noises of the present society, but there isn't quite enough context in order to derive any certainty about this possible interpretation. They only say "present with some burrs removed", and the "of course" makes it even more complicated, at least for me. Any suggestions?

Thanks again and big hugs to all!

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Wednesday, November 14th 2012, 11:33am

Hi, i see that term, burrs, as edges.
You see, if you attempt to see the future with a brand new eyes upon problem solving, like putting a relative in your absolutes,you will end up with a future that can be the your immediate present, without the burrs blocking the progress and betterment of humans. Burrs in that sentence encompasses all the negatives into one word, that can be cut out of your future if you embrace the goal of change, for the best change possible in a way that enhances our lives.

At least its what i think it meant...loool

Hope it helps.
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