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Monday, August 10th 2015, 7:12pm

TZMDefined - word 'meme'

Hi! I am Annie and I am with the Romanian team.
If you went through TZM Defined you sure have acquainted with this nice word. :) 'meme'
Can anyone please help with the translation of the word 'meme'? I have a hard time finding the exact correspondence in meaning in Romanian and I was wondering if any of the way you have translated it would help in translating it.
meme:
1. an idea, belief or belief system, or pattern of behavior that spreads throughout a culture
2. a pervasive thought or thought pattern that replicates itself via cultural means; a parasitic code, a virus of the mind especially contagious to children and the impressionable.
Comes fro the Greek 'mimema' ---- so, can it be mimetic. I am inclined toward this mimetic... behaviour, thinking, system, even repetitive thinking, superstition (no way!), preconceived idea (kind of not appropriate...), shallow thinking, etc. I lost it! :chicken:
The word is not assimilated to the Ro vocabulary and yet it's been left untranslated for the time being. I'm kind of blocked with this issue here.

Thank you!

Annie
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Tuesday, August 11th 2015, 1:58pm

I think that Richard Dawkins was the first who used this word in his book "The selfish gene". The word "meme" was translated the same in Bulgarian, so you don't have to find some different word, just use it as it is.

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Monday, August 17th 2015, 5:43pm

That's great! I should think there must be a note made at the beginning of the translation with some explanations about this new word to be introduced in the other language. This way, everybody is happy. There is even in the original English ZTM Defined book an explanation of the word, which comes as a blessing for me. Maybe that particular explanation is the best of everything that can be said about this word. Assuming mentality/presumptuous thinking is what really makes me happy, on the condition this particular term is explained beforehand, so that it can be assimilated in Romanian (other languages, too).

Thank you for your answer - angelov Bulgaria :)
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Tuesday, August 18th 2015, 5:34am

Annie, whenever asking about a term or phrase, it's very helpful to include its surrounding context, so it can be analyzed for how specifically it is being used. For example, there may be significant differences in inference depending on whether it's being used to describe an image meme verses a cultural meme. Providing some of its surrounding context/content will often provide the additional info needed by others to help narrow down 'best synonym' suggestions, or to allow them to describe clearer what is meant by the confusing term/phrase. ;)
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Wednesday, August 19th 2015, 10:48pm

word meme

Thank you for your observation. There are so many instances this word is used throughout the book, that it is difficult to mention all of them. Yes, context is needed, that's why it was a problem for me this word, too, because the context in which I came across it did not render the meaning I felt it was 'right'. To cut it short, here are the instances I came across it. Please note that other translators encountered it in different contexs, but overall, the meaning it renders should be the same throughout the entire text (800,000 words if needed).

1. "Likewise, just as genes can mutate in ways that are detrimental to their host, such as the phenomenon of cancer, so can memes with respect to ideological/sociological transmissions, generating mental frameworks that serve as detriments to the host (or society). It is here where the term “disorder” is introduced. A disorder is defined as “a derangement or abnormality of function”

2. "If we examine the institutional establishments we take for granted today – from macro system attributes such as the financial system, the legal system, the political system and major religious systems – to micro system attributes such as materialism, marriage, celebrity, etc. – we must remind ourselves that none of these ideas are actually <em>real</em> in the physical sense. These are temporal <em>meme structures</em> we have created to serve our purposes given conditions at certain points in time and no matter how much we emotionally <em>attach</em> to such issues; no matter how large an institution may become; no matter how many people may believe in such institutions - they are still <em>impositions of thought</em> and <em>transient</em> by nature."

3. "In short, a great deal of fear and emotional power exists around the notion of social change and how it might affect our lives in the way of liberty and individuality.Yet, if we step back and think about what freedom means away from these cultural memes, we find that notions of freedom can be argued as <em>relative</em> given human history, along with <em>standards of living</em> and even <em>personal expression</em> itself."

4. "As noted prior in this essay, people's sense of possibility is directly related to their knowledge - what they have learned. If traditional educational and social institutions present all socioeconomic variation within the confines of such boxed <em>frames of reference</em>, people will likely mirror this assumption (meme) and perpetuate it in thought and practice. If you are not “abc”, then you <em>must</em> be “xyz” - this is the common <em>thought meme</em>. Even the political establishment of the United States exists in this paradigm, for if you are not a “republican”, you <em>must</em> be a ”democrat”, etc."

5. "While genes basically transmit biological data from person to person through heredity, memes transmit cultural data - ideas - from person to person via human communication in all forms."

6. "This <i>unseen violence</i> can be extended to cultural memes<sup><a class="sdfootnoteanc" name="sdfootnote6anc" HREF="#sdfootnote6sym"><sup>6</sup></a></sup> as well where social traditions and their psychology can, without direct malicious intent, create resulting consequences that are damaging to a human being. For instance, there are religious cultures in the world that opt out of any form of common medical treatment."

7. "A “meme” is an idea, behavior, style, or usage that spreads from person to person within a culture (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/meme)"


The first four instances are the ones I came across in my part of translating the text (TZMDefined2_4), the other three are at the beginning of the text which were translated by someone else.

Below, you'll find some additional info about this word, that I hope would clarify its meaning even more:

a) The Meaning of MEME
MEME means "An idea that spreads like a virus by word of mouth, email, blogs etc"
http://www.internetslang.com/MEME-meaning-definition.asp;

b) meme
[miːm]
noun
1.an element of a culture or system of behaviour passed from one individual to another by imitation or other non-genetic means.
2.an image, video, piece of text, etc., typically humorous in nature, that is copied and spread rapidly by Internet users, often with slight variations.
Origin:
1970s: from Greek mimēma ‘that which is imitated’, on the pattern of gene;
https://www.google.ro/?gws_rd=cr,ssl&ei=…meme+definition

Now, all I could think of in terms of translating/defining it into Romanian is 'tipar de gândire' și/sau 'mentalitate prezumptivă' (gândire preconcepută), gândire stereotipă. Cineva a sugerat și termenul 'tendință culturală'.
Someone (very helpful) also provided this information about this word: "That concept [meme] was invented for the current money-based system as a control function."

While all of them may be accepted, we can still decide to only one of the definitions,but we all need to clarify this word so that we can list it as a newly introduced term in our language. Sometimes, too much of explaining loses the essence, while too little won't do, so, let's find the best way to go on this.

It is my hope that this message would be of help to anyone who thinks about the matter. I'll think about it some more, myself, but any helpful suggestion would be appreciated, so that we could close the matter and be all happy with the result.

Regards,
Annie
P.S. Mai este o variantă. Am observat că cineva a tradus 'meme' prin 'mimă', sau ceva asemănător. S-ar putea să fie cea mai bună idee, cu toate că acest cuvânt nu există în DEX. Dacă am adăuga și sensul de aici al cuvântului, ar putea să răspundă la toate cerințele semantice și să fie cea mai bună variantă. Dar, cine suntem noi să adăugăm cuvinte, s-ar putea argumenta. Totuși, cuvântul 'mimă' , chiar și în sintagma 'mimă culturală' ar fi potrivit în terminologia textului. Cuvântul 'mimă' (pl. 'mime'), ca atare, există în DEX, dar cu alt înțeles, care doar trimite cumva la "stereotip", "tipar de gândire", 'prejudecată' prin sensul de imitare, provenit pe filieră franceză în vocabularul limbii române. (Jocul de socializare 'mima' pe care îl știm toți - jocul imitației ). Coroborat și cu sensul din originea grecească a cuvântului, mă gândesc că ar merge. Dar asta este doar părerea mea. Cam atât. Vă rog să nu ezitaţi să mă contactaţi, pentru a putea găsi o soluţie la felul în care explicăm termenul, în vazul în care îl lăsăm netradus, sau dacă vom decide să introducem acest interesant "mimă".
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This post has been edited 7 times, last edit by "Annie Ann" (Sep 16th 2015, 9:20pm) with the following reason: finishing up/ completion of the instances + some spelling...editing + PS


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Thursday, August 20th 2015, 7:49am

Given all of the contextual information you have provided (which is significantly more than most people tend to provide), it is obvious that the book is focusing very specifically on 'cultural' memes, which the book provides examples of materialism, marriage, celebrity, etc..

Basically, this type of meme refers to the vast majority of this culture's labels and judgments about nearly anything. Additional examples include bigot, homosexual, and other separatist concepts; soulmate, boyfriend/girlfriend, fiance, and other 'two-people' connection concepts; jock, nerd, health nut, and other lifestyle concepts; etc., etc., etc.. So, the question then becomes "Is there a Romanian term that can encompass this wide-range (and much, much more) of cultural labels?"
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Thursday, August 20th 2015, 7:54am

Exactly! This is the question we struggle to find the best answer for! :) Because those three solutions I've mentioned would encompass its meaning. We do not have one special, specific term for it to render the whole idea. At least I don't know about anything like that! Careful reading should be done in all that I provided in my previous message.

Thanks!
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Sunday, August 23rd 2015, 8:05pm

Glossary

Hi, Ray!
I am almost done with TZMDefined2_4. This message is to clarify the Glossary input. As I reached the finish line of section 2_4, I was very pleasantly surprised to find at the end of the 'Essay' (Chapter), a sort of a list that clarifies some terms used throughout the paper. This comes in very handy; of course that part is to be translated and I don't really see any point in setting up a Glossary of our own, for the time being. Moreover, another reason is that except for the 'meme' term no other term would make it to such a list. At least not from 2_4.
So, let's not sweat for a Glossary now. The book does a very good job in explaining the terms, so... I don't see the need for our own one.

See you!
Annie
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