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11

Tuesday, October 25th 2011, 3:50pm

FROM DI ANNA

Quoted


Holy Moly! LingTeam! Everybody's been up all night brainstorming! Goooood! :thumbsup: Hm... let's see if I can make sense of all the messages? :huhwhat:

@gentle jewel: I'm sure we can do a better job directing newbies to the "Guidelines" that you just saw for the first time. Hey, not to mention the "oldbies" need it handy too 'cause all of us can refresh our memories about team decisions regarding rules, etc. I think it's important to remember that like all plans in an RBE, our rules & regs are emerging too. Sweet Nomada and m' Sweet Lord Bru-Bru are always working on new tools that hopefully will make the process easier for us all. Having said that, here we are:

About the hyphens: As I understand it, the use of hyphens to indicate a change of speaker is a convention used by the hearing impaired in subtitles. This is why we have chosen NOT to use hyphens freely in our punctuation of strings. This will be confusing for our hearing impaired population.

About the quotation rule you found: I saw the exact same rule when I was searching for "the latest". Lord Bru? I kinda agree with Gentle Jewel that if we use double quotes for direct quotations and single quotes for words, phrases, or quotes within quotes, this would be "cleaner" in subtitles. (I have to admit my old English professors would cringe at what I just said :secret: ). Still, in subtitles I think it's important to keep the busyness out of it. Making them clean and concise would be the most important. Maybe others could weigh in on how quotation marks look in subtitles?? :ummm:

@Julie: Hey, there new girlfriend! :wave: How nice to see another lady proofer in the mix. 8o I did the same thing with commas when I began proofing too. Just like Jon, I put commas where ever they needed to be, and I didn't pay any attention to the rule ('cause I didn't know about it actually). Sooooooo, yes we need to do a better idea of telling folks upfront. Maybe we could do something like "special cases" that refer only to subtitling? Hey, that's what "emerging" is all about, right? Looking for better ways to make us the best! Meanwhile, these are good topics for TeamSpeak meetups.

Me? I'm as happy as can be that all this discussion is happening. 8o Nice to meet you, Gentle Jewel and Julie.
Hugs to all you special folks who spread the message to the world! :bighug:

:bow: Praise be to the LTI!--The best is becoming the bestest!
Di

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12

Tuesday, October 25th 2011, 3:51pm

FROM RODRIGO

Quoted


Quoted from "gentlejewel"
s nice as it is to hear, I'm not sure why i get a 'way-to-go Julie' - did I miss something in the email communication?


hehe. for the initiative of coming with the brainstorming and sharing pause is already enough ;)

Quoted from "gentlejewel"
I thought that it could put a lot of commotion in the teas and cookies room if I'd put the text of my email in there - you don't think so?


yes. I agree that posting this there is enough to spark the discussion and participation from all.

Quoted from "gentlejewel"
Why are the results better when you do it in offline mode? Because no-one else can 'interrupt' you then or something?

Not because of that. because while transcribing in that offline tool we have a sound wave graphic where we can click and drag selected areas, to determine from where to where will the subtitle string be created, instead of a play/pause button in dotsub. Also it tells us the amount of characters in the strings and the ratio character/minute, so we know if the strings the way we are building them are resulting in a good/stressed reading time. There is a spellchecker too that will help non-English natives to transcribe more correctly.


I agree with all that you said after about the guidelines, and just by giving your perspective on it it helps understand what newcomers are perceiving and feeling when they get here.

Another thing I would like to share: I am not correcting the English nor taking away comas from the end of strings, as I think they will help the work of the 2nd proofreader when determining if the text is well built. I think that only in the end of everything we should take the comas away. Also if the comas come in the strings when the transcription come to my hands for timeshifting, it will help me determine the good spots to cut the strings 8) (Sometimes speakers go so fast and inarticulated that I dont know which are nouns and which are predicates :laughing:

hugs

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13

Tuesday, October 25th 2011, 3:51pm

FROM DI ANNA

Quoted


Oh, Gentle Jewel: I forgot to mention the ellipses (...). Traditionally, it simply means something's omitted. I would agree with our LingTeam Guideline to use it only for incomplete sentences. Discussion, anyone? :talker:

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14

Tuesday, October 25th 2011, 3:53pm

I think it makes sense to use single quotes for lone words or expressions and double quotes for quotes. I'm gonna update the guidelines.


[EDIT] No, on second thought, I won't update the guidelines, because I'm gonna need examples. I think I'm gonna make a table for this, like the "appropriate" "inappropriate" ones. If anyone has examples handy for that double quotes rule, please post 'em :)

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Tuesday, October 25th 2011, 4:20pm

Gentle Julie?

OMG...At my age, I have trouble remembering ONE name per person! So, I think I'll call my new girlfriend, Gentle Julie? :ahaha:
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Tuesday, October 25th 2011, 4:30pm

Examples of quotes

Sweet, m' Lord,
If you can wait on those examples, I'll post them as I continue proofing PJ's "Arriving at an RBE" . It will be really nice to have examples from actual material, don't you think? :ponder:
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17

Tuesday, October 25th 2011, 8:02pm

Hyphen use

Oh what have I started here :)... No seriously - I'm so happy (and very pleasantly surprised) that everyone's open to discuss and that I'm not considered a pain in the bum...

Di Anna - how sweet you are! Thanks for the warm welcome!
FROM DI ANNA

Quoted

About the hyphens: As I understand it, the use of hyphens to indicate a change of speaker is a convention used by the hearing impaired in subtitles. This is why we have chosen NOT to use hyphens freely in our punctuation of strings. This will be confusing for our hearing impaired population.
So, hyphens are conventionally used for showing second speaker to the hearing impaired. I took a look at the google spreadsheet and saw the examples that were shown and indeed - I would have also used brackets in these examples. And how about this example from the Jacque Fresco questions, participation:

But it you believe that people scratch their heads because it itches
- or they think it itches - that's alright
as long as you know why.

Ok so in this example I see now that brackets could also be used :):
PS - where would you put the comma in here, don't you think it needs one? (or they think it itches) that's alright

But it you believe that people scratch their heads because it itches
(or they think it itches) that's all right
as long as you know why.


But what about this one (PJ Occupy LA)? I don't believe this could be put in brackets:

Not the rise of a political ideology
but the rise of a defense mechanism
coming from the very fabric of our culture
that sees that something is extremely wrong and very - well, cancerous -
cancerous to society as a whole.


And if we put commas instead it doesn't look exactly right in my eyes
:


Not the rise of a political ideology
but the rise of a defense mechanism
coming from the very fabric of our culture
that sees that something is extremely wrong and very, well, cancerous
cancerous to society as a whole.

And my favorite way of using a hyphen is to show emphasis. So what would you suggest for the following?


It's defined by consumption. It's defined by turnover
and we often think that corporations should be held responsible
for their actions because of their abuse of this nature
when in fact, the competitive market model of economics
demands that behavior.
Again - it's structural.

I've been searching for some material on the 'whole hyphen to show second speaker' subject but it's not an easy thing to find. Perhaps someone could point me towards something? How up-to-date is this information if I may ask? It's just really difficult for me to come to grips with the fact that the hearing impaired chose the hyphen as the way to clearly show 2nd speaker, when any number of symbols, e.g. * > ~ -- could also be used, and not something that's used for punctuation. In Holland we always have subtitles when any foreign language spoken program is on, and not once I have seen the hyphen to show second speaker. Anyway - if there's really nothing to do about it, I'll get used to it of course (I'm already starting to and it's not as bad as at first).

Kisses and yes, LTI is the bestest!
Julie
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This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "gentlejewel" (Oct 25th 2011, 8:26pm) with the following reason: I'm so new to these forum thingy s and the version(s) before was almost impossible to read...


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18

Tuesday, October 25th 2011, 8:29pm

About hearing impaired

Hey, Gentle Julie (may I call you GJ for short?)

I think I'll respond to each of your questions separately, so I won't get confused! :dunno:
First, about the hyphens for hearing impaired, I have not researched it, but had been told this was the case, and I had no reason to doubt the LTI. Hm... should we? :huhwhat: Well, probably we should if we're gonna apply the scientific method, right? :ponder: I may research that one later!

Second, in response to the Jacque Fresco strings, I agree with the use of the parentheses. Hm...I did see a misspelled word (alright should be all right). I have already noted this common error on a doc for Lord Bru. Alright is never all right! :rofl: And I HAVE researched that one! No, I didn't think it needed a comma anywhere.

And, it is sooooo nice to have another Lady to talk too in here. Maybe I'll call you Lady GJ?
Will answer more later.
((hugs))
Lady Di
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Tuesday, October 25th 2011, 8:35pm

Brackets in PJ Occupy LA?

But what about this one (PJ Occupy LA)? I don't believe this could be put in brackets:

Not the rise of a political ideology
but the rise of a defense mechanism
coming from the very fabric of our culture
that sees that something is extremely wrong and very - well, cancerous -
cancerous to society as a whole.


No, I wouldn't use brackets here, but I would edit out 'well' so that it reads:

that sees that something is extremely wrong and very cancerous

We usually leave out padding phrases and words like 'well'.

Talk to you later, Lady GJ! :)
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Tuesday, October 25th 2011, 8:40pm

Hyphen for emphasis?

And my favorite way of using a hyphen is to show emphasis. So what would you suggest for the following?


It's defined by consumption. It's defined by turnover
and we often think that corporations should be held responsible
for their actions because of their abuse of this nature
when in fact, the competitive market model of economics
demands that behavior.
Again - it's structural.


Nope, I disagree. Maybe it's my traditional background in English, but I've never seen that. Are you from US?
I would opt for:
Again, it's structural.

((hugs)) from me :bighug: Di
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