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Thursday, January 30th 2014, 8:25pm

Incomplete transcriptions? This is exactly what I needed!
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Saturday, February 1st 2014, 11:22am

Incomplete transcriptions? This is exactly what I needed!

You can also chose a small project and transcribe it from scratch offline, if you think you can get acquainted better with the offline tool during transcription and maybe even find out that it can be faster to transcribe from scratch than correcting the structure f a transcription, depending on how it is and how hard is the video (speed of speech, decipher mumbles etc)
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Sunday, February 2nd 2014, 2:00am

Anant Agarwal: Why massive open online courses (still) matter | Video on TED.com

Very interesting that this talk has lots of specific info that applies to our goal.
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Monday, February 3rd 2014, 5:58pm

Christos invited me to take part at the meeting:Why is there no transcription for "Jacque Fresco on War" while there is one for a video that contains this one?

However, I'm not sure if it makes much sense. I am not interested in the tools tutorial. Will you talk about anything else? If yes, maybe there are some approaches which can be useful for the subtitle section. What do you recommend? Should I participate, if I'm not into transcribing? Could I learn anything useful for the German translation team? :)

Nevertheless lizardman gave me the IPs and passwords of two servers. Will the meeting be on the server of TZM or TVP? Which channel there?

Let me copy the description of my web tool from the other thread:
What may help to make the procedure more efficient might be a tool which I programmed for the German team. It creates srt-files out of Titanpads and Sync.in-Pads with much less work for the user than in the common way we used in the German team (manually copying every line from the pad to dotSUB). I could also implement other pads if necessary. The tool also has a function for transcripts.
If you are interested, you will find it here: http://forum.linguisticteam.org/srt_tool/
Don't hesitate to try it out in whichever way you want, because it is not possible to do any harm with it - the last step (uploading the srt-file) is done by the user and not the program. The tool itself does not change anything it just supports the user to increase the working speed.
For testing purposes you can use the following pad: TitanPad: TitanPad: zeitgeistTheEuropeanWay-franky
There are all lines already marked in the fashion the tool needs.

So you can work collaboratively on the transcription and save some time by using the tool to put the text into Dotsub. This is not directly related to making the time shifting stage obsolete, but it might be useful to increase the efficiency of the transcription work.
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Monday, February 3rd 2014, 8:15pm

Meeting time, everybody. Come to teamspeak. Just install it and copy paste this to your browser:
ts3server://thezeitgeistmovement.com?password=ts_129tzm&channel=%5Bcspacer0%5D~~~~~~~TEAMS~~~~~~~~%2FLINGUISTIC%20TEAM%20%28Feb%2015%20at%2019%3A00%20UTC%29
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Monday, February 3rd 2014, 10:33pm

Hey everyone. There was no participation in today's meeting, so I think that since we can't meet online, we should write our feedback here. So, I am summing up the problem and possible solutions so that we don't lose our rhythm, and if there are any new readers, they can catch up and contribute.

Problem: The current process of the English Team (5 stages consisting of Transcription, 1st Proofreading, Timeshifting, 2nd Proofreding, Final Proofreading) seems unsustainable based on the active English volunteers. The main problem is the timeshifting stage, where there are not enough volunteers to maintain a good flow. Specifically, timeshifting is usually done offline because Dotsub (the tool we mainly use to work on the videos) is not good for it.

Possible Solution: the integration of the transcription and the timeshifting stage (and maybe even proofreading). Transcription relies much on timeshifting and vice versa, so we might as well make it one stage. If the transcriber is really familiar with the English Guidelines, they can also do the first proofreading. If we all start learning about all the stages, then we will share our feedback with everyone (because they will have skills on the other stages too), so we can get better at what we do.

Consequent Problem: So, the issue is which tool is suited for this versatile stage of "transcription+timeshifting" (+proofreading).

Possible Solution: I see no other way to find that out other than experiment with all
possible tools and share our feedback and arrive at what seems best. So
let the experiments begin! Please share your feedback in this thread!

Possible Tools: Aegisub (offline), Visual Sub Synch or VSS (offline), Subtitle Workshop (offline), Dotsub (online), Amara - Universal Subtitles (online)
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Tuesday, February 4th 2014, 7:50am

So that was the reason why nobody responded in this thread either. :)
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Tuesday, February 4th 2014, 6:10pm

Christos invited me to take part at the meeting:Why is there no transcription for "Jacque Fresco on War" while there is one for a video that contains this one?



However, I'm not sure if it makes much sense. I am not interested in the tools tutorial. Will you talk about anything else?
maybe in a different meeting and forum thread. In his one, the topic is English Transcriptions. This thread explains the topic and here you have the guidelines:
Linguistic Team Guidelines - Linguistic Team International Wiki

The use of pads by the german team started, according to Franky and from what I recall, because they weren't aware of why the english transcriptions were closed when the proofreaders are working on them (until they are completed) and so they arranged their own transcriptions in the pads so they could translate the projects that weren't open for translations. It still didn't solve the problem of providing good quality transcriptions that serve all volunteers of all languages, instead of everyone making their own transcription.
To work only in dotsub seems much easier than the pads and with less admin tasks involved. But we need to quit the idea that is up to the government to provide us housing and food. It wont. Not in this system. The same way that it won't be the "English Team" to provide the transcriptions that you and others are wondering why they don't exist yet; because they are only volunteers; there is no 'English Team'. It is that distortion that we have to overcome. If people want transcriptions done, and with quality, we have to work on them. That is why the meeting and the topic of this forum. If people want to only work on their own transcriptions and translations, they (and all we loosing in the same way) are very far from applying what we translate about an RBE, and we wont arrive at an RBE that way neither, it is obvious to realize.

Hope it is a bit more clear. Surely is very little info for everything related with english transcriptions. I can't help you much more than that, because, like you said, you are not interested. But in case you change your mind, put your questions in this thread after you go through the guidelines and tutorials :tongue:

This initiative is about improving that transcriptions process with some considerable changes. Everyone's help is welcome and very much needed.
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Tuesday, February 4th 2014, 7:59pm

The same way that it won't be the "English Team" to provide the transcriptions that you and others are wondering why they don't exist yet; because they are only volunteers; there is no 'English Team'. It is that distortion that we have to overcome. If people want transcriptions done, and with quality, we have to work on them. That is why the meeting and the topic of this forum. If people want to only work on their own transcriptions and translations, they (and all we loosing in the same way) are very far from applying what we translate about an RBE, and we wont arrive at an RBE that way neither, it is obvious to realize.
I would like to add that we are in a synergistic team (and a synergistic world of course), where the problems of one affect the other (whether in an obvious way or not). If for example the English team's procedure has a problem this affects every single language team. If the English team does not have a good flow for example, there will be no translations for the language teams. Anyone is more than welcome to be the English team. I am not saying "being in the team" because as Nomada pointed out, our teams are comprised of volunteers; they are neither professional teams nor institutions. That being said, you don't have to have some kind of special knowledge or speak the English language perfectly to contribute. Don't worry about perfection; you will never reach it. If someone wants to help they can do it in whatever way fits their skills best and if not they can learn from those who know a little more. If you don't try and you don't do mistakes, you will never learn...anything!

We may not be the same but we are one. We get to carry each other. If everyone helps the guy next to him/her, everyone is better off. Problems cannot be solved in isolation from their environment.

Also, about the meetings, yes there is often a topic to be discussed but that doesn't mean that there is a strict procedure or that we can't discuss about s'th else when needed. We are a team here with volunteers; guys with the same goal: to make the world a little better for everybody. We are not a company or a dictatorship. We are not machines. We are humans. And meetings are mostly for this purpose: for volunteers to communicate, to exchange views and ideas, to get to know each other, to share experiences, feedback, to express their feelings, their fears, their visions...Don't forget that. We're humans, not robots. We forget how much we need each other because we are separated from the moment we are born. What if this team was perfect but we didn't even talk to each other? Would you like that? Would the team's success be relevant to our human needs?

Ossi, feel free to contact me at skype whenever you want.
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Tuesday, February 4th 2014, 8:28pm

Hey guys, I think there was some projection on your part here about what Ossi said. They are not working on transcriptions, but on German translations. And, as far as I know, they are using transcriptions that have gone through the English team (existing or not, lol). And the tool Ossi created takes the translation from a pad and creates an .srt file out of it, so it can be imported into dotsub.

I think it would help the communication between us, and it would save us time, if we try to obtain some information about something before discussing it. Because your comments now seemed to not be based on facts.

Just my observation. :)

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Tuesday, February 4th 2014, 8:33pm

These are really wonderful comments. I would suggest to @Christos and @Nomada that they post these comments in the Admin Blog Section as designed by @Ray for our new Portal. They are worth keeping for others to read as we move forward to the place we want to be.

Here's your link.

((hugs))
Di
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Tuesday, February 4th 2014, 8:42pm

I am not sure how Ossi's tool can help make the timeshifting stage obsolete. The main problem is that timeshifting and transcription are seperated. Can someone give me a concrete example?
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Wednesday, February 5th 2014, 10:19pm

Amara for Translating and Synch with the sound at the same time

I am experimenting amara.org a bit more and it seems that it offers a lot of stuff in the new beta version that allow for a great job translating and timeshifting our translation at the same time. We can click on a string and see how many characters in each line, the reading speed (characters per second) and we can add a line in between and synch it with the sound and image by dragging the start and end of the string or by using the arrows up and down to set initial and ending time for any given string. The timings of the transcript and translations can be different in the same working location, with english (reference) on the left and our language on the right. I could also drag the english subs (from youtube) so they stay behind the portuguese ones; it gets less messy. Here is a PrtSc in attachment. I'll do some testing on English transcribing and proofreading.

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Thursday, February 6th 2014, 5:13pm

First of all: lizardman got the point. :) He stated it better than I could. To recall the main point: We are using existing transcriptions in the German Team which have gone through your whole process and are free for translation.

I am not sure how Ossi's tool can help make the timeshifting stage obsolete. The main problem is that timeshifting and transcription are seperated. Can someone give me a concrete example?

It is loosely related, because you are looking to improve the processes of the non-existing English team. :D By now you have three main stages (correct me, if I'm wrong): transcription, timeshifting, putting it into Dotsub (The last stage might be no problem, if one does the srt-file before. If somebody works on the srt-file alone, the problems that I will address next are even bigger!)
You are aiming to improve the first two. My tool makes the third stage much faster and enables more collaborative work before that. So maybe we can fasten the process not just by connecting the first two stages so it is just one big stage, which probably does not make it much faster, because the time codes still need to be shifted and the transcript still needs to be written, but by the same person. Strange, that would be the first proposal I would have, if I would start a Linguistic team for transcriptions and translations. Probably the problem in the first place was that there are some persons with not enough skills in time shifting. This problem will remain and will even get worse, if you connect the first two stages. You will decrease the persons which are able to do it. Education in form of the usage of Amara or whatever program used for it, is a good idea, but will not solve the problem, that new people cannot participate in the big stage of transcription+timeshifting. New people would probably be able to just do or correct the transcription. So my idea was to increase the efficiency on the last stage. Everyone new will understand why a tool is helpful there just when they get the task to copy every line to Dotsub. :)

Now to the concrete example for my tool:
I am using some fictive persons. ;)
If John uses an offline tool, like say Aegisub, for the Video "Jacque Fresco on shrimps 10:15 min" he is the only one who can work on the translation for it. His English speaking friends Susi and Horst cannot help him until he is done and uploads the srt-file. Also Horst might not know, that John is already working on the transcript because of bad communication between them. So Horst and John do the same transcript separate from one another.
Now Susi gets an idea: "What if we do the transcriptions in a collaborative pad? So everyone can see it and is able to participate." They are using the pad and while John is typing at minute 7:35, Susi can correct his mistakes at minute 4:01, while Horst drinks a coffee and joins in after that with a fresh mind and realizes that both John and Susi did not hear correctly what Fresco said, because he mumbles too hard sometimes. He is not talking about "shrimps" but about "sinks" of his fully integrated bath room system. So Horst corrects that while John and Susi finish their version of the transcript with minute 10:15. Some days after they have finished, Sue comes in and corrects some minor mistakes. The transcript is finished. But what now? Somehow we have to put it into Dotsub. "Copying line by line is so boring and does take so much time." thinks John. So John creates a web tool, which automatically takes every time code and every text line and arranges it in a way, that a correctly formated srt-file is created. All what John, Susi, Horst or Sue have to do, is to give the tool 2 inputs and then upload the srt-file to Dotsub. Done. "That's much faster than before" says Horst. He goes on "So I have time to make another cup of coffee."

If you want to know, what Horst felt when saying that, I am deeply recommending you to just use the tool once! I will cite myself now:
If you are interested, you will find it here: http://forum.linguisticteam.org/srt_tool/
Don't hesitate to try it out in whichever way you want, because it is not possible to do any harm with it - the last step (uploading the srt-file) is done by the user and not the program. The tool itself does not change anything it just supports the user to increase the working speed.
For testing purposes you can use the following pad: TitanPad: zeitgeistTheEuropeanWay-franky
There are all lines already marked in the fashion the tool needs.

So you can work collaboratively on the transcription and save some time by using the tool to put the text into Dotsub. This is not directly related to making the time shifting stage obsolete, but it might be useful to increase the efficiency of the transcription work.

You will need the following password: "n0tv3rycr34t1v3" without ""

At least you answered my question, why I should participate - because I can meet you and there is not a strict procedure on what is being discussed. :)
And to make it sure: I see most of the statements you all formulated very similar, but they were not related in any way to what I wanted to propose or say. In fact, because we are all volunteers and need and want to work together, I was posting in this thread and that's why I created my web tool in the first place - to make it easier for all of you.

Thank you for reading my long text and for testing the tool now. ;) I appreciate your work in the non-existing English transcription team. :tongue:

P.S.: Sorry, if someone feels attacked. That's not the idea at all! I am just having too much fun and wanted to share it with you. ;)
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This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "ossi11111" (Feb 6th 2014, 6:39pm)


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Thursday, February 6th 2014, 11:04pm

My focus on trying the amara.org new beta interface that allows to translate and synch your translation differently from the English, both at the same time, comes from thinking of a solution for those languages that say that sometimes they need to timeshift their translations after translating, because the English transcript has text sizes and reading times that don't allow for a comfortable reading in their language translation. I am not thinking of using it for timeshifting and/or review English transcripts. This timeshifting on amara takes equally long time as doing it offline and no so easily or with the same precision. To use it only for translation is quite fast. To provide access to the working locations and create projects is very good; but not to restrict access to the projects, in case we need it.
I can imagine a system where Amara would be the working location for translation of the videos that are directly connected to it, from the LTI youtube channel, and when finished we would save the SRTs in the LTI server (not on dotsub, which implies one more upload to admin) and upload it to the original channels.
There is no need to add video description or title when creating a working location in Amara, because the info comes from the youtube link automatically, but one can use amara to translate both the title and the description with a simple click on them while on the interface to translate to our language. A new project would only need one upload in the LTI YT channel and one forum thread. When the original youtube locations for the projects are not accessible for us to promote the translations in them (In the TVP, TZM or other channels, for example, through video descriptions, notifications, etc), we can use the LTI channel upload instead, which has the advantage of being connected to the amara.org working locations already.


@ossi11111: Glad that you are here sharing all that info : )

The creation of the transcription already with the string structure and timings in synch takes longer time, indeed. Not many people are willing to do it. That is why we are here. What will not be done during the transcription will require someone else to do it later. Therefore the timeshifting stage. Those here who tried timeshifting, do you want to share what you think about it, the need for it, the tools, the difficulties, etc? The others who haven't yet, would you like to share how you wish to help solving that issue of low quality transcriptions done by volunteers who aren't much around communicating and so giving rise to the need for the longest stage in the English transcriptions - timeshifting and restructuring of subtitle strings in the transcriptions where the 'new' volunteers helped? This is what this thread is about.

About ossi suggesting that we use pads to proofread, I don't see us making all this more efficient and easy with adding one more platform to work on the same projects that are also worked in other platforms when on different stages of the same language. I think the same when considering across languages (Ex: 1 platform for english transcriptions and another for german translations) There is a lot of admin work to be done already. I am thinking in terms of reducing those admin tasks. But if anyone thinks it is better to focus on how to maintain or increase them, I suggest one first take the initiative of taking the tasks itself and use that experience to build upon them. Even that anyone wishes to focus on that, several platforms make communication much less efficient, many times none-existent. Without communication, events don't happen. No matter how much one use the abstraction English Team, to a large degree one will just be fooling itself.

These are really wonderful comments. I would suggest to @Christos and @Nomada that they post these comments in the Admin Blog Section as designed by @Ray for our new Portal. They are worth keeping for others to read as we move forward to the place we want to be.
Thanks for the remind Di. I am not ready to go back to the Portal. I don't think it serves us much neither if there is no volunteers to deal with the english transcriptions. Except if we put it online and create blog posts for each project so they can be found online by new possible volunteers. Until then, I don't see how it can solve the issue of quality and abundant english tanscriptions.


How are all those volunteers in subtitling and translation forums doing their subs, many times with good synch and string structure? And how come they make so many?
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